Armtrac Issued PCN for Rockpool Car Park, Cornwall - Outside the Relevant Time Period?

LW-Worcs

Thanks Trainerman - I will relay your message.  The stress these things cause in unbelievable when there is so much other worry happening in life. 
Sorry - maybe silly question as my lunch break is over I need to look after work...I have found this wording but I think Armtrac are the land owner as the Rockpool cafe tell me they don't own this land and the other bits I am not sure fit...is this the right blue wording I should be using?  The letter template is the same as on the Daily Mail article - it seems pretty watertight to me?

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle. (the sign isn't the problem for us ...think it may be the dodgy buttons or a miskeyed car reg?  I put in the full reg not just last three digits)

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it. (I have found that a Freedom of Information doesnt apply to private companies - could I legally ask for the last XX digits of car reg for 1pm to 2pm on 13th June?)

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

thank you once again 

Coupon-mad

Please, please, could someone local @zhonguonuren or @weddax please film on a phone an attempt to type in an anonymous (not your own) numberplate at Rockpool.

I'm not asking for you to actually park there nor to put any money in, to be clear!

Just to go for a walk there (please) and have someone film on their phone an attempt to start the process at the machine and type in a full (but not real) 7 digit VRM. We need to see the machine doesn't let you/only shows the first digits on the screen.

Also please anonymously record a Rockpool staff member telling you that the machine is causing all sorts of issues snd has been reported to Armtrac months ago.

We need that evidence too, please, if possible.

Because that machine doesn't have the same instruction message as the Sennen Cove one, it is otherwise impossible for me to make my planned DVLA and ICO complaints for my friend.

Thanks to whoever can do this!


@LW-Worcs

Here's what I wrote for my friend to put at IAS stage, that got Armtrac crawling under their stone. I attached a photo of the SENNEN COVE machine (NOT THIS ONE) from the Daily Mail article plus a full screenshot (not a link) to the article as well:

IAS APPEAL:

No breach of contract by the driver.

By providing a machine that only allows a motorist to key in 3 characters and/or has 'sticky' malfunctioning keys, the operator should reasonably foresee that a driver using that machine will find it impossible to meet the conflicting term on the signs, requiring the 'full registration'.

The term on the sign is therefore void, unfair and not binding. The signage terms must match the machine's capabilities and the term does not.  Evidence is attached. Please see photo of the driver's pay and display ticket and a photo of the machines used by Armtrac at the sites where this fault is happening, which include Rockpool and Sennen Cove car parks.

This operator is relying on old machines with either sticky keys or faulty/incorrectly configured VRM recording systems and I see that this has been reported in several press articles in recent days. These articles are not about my case, but they confirm and corroborate my position.

I attach (screenshot in full) of a Daily Mail article about this issue. It names Rockpool as one of the sites affected and shows a letter of apology that some motorists have received, admitting that the machines are at fault, not the drivers.

The driver did not make a typo. The driver made reasonable endeavours to comply with the sign. The single machine was indisputably playing up at the material time and the operator is put to strict proof otherwise.

The staff at Rockpool said as long ago as May, to another victim customer who complained. that they had already reported the issue to Armtrac who had 'done nothing' and other drivers had been affected. This is affecting their business and if this appeal is rejected I will escalate the complaint further with them and Trading Standards.

In good faith, we had used the machine to pay the £1 and the driver had the honest belief that we had done all we could.  As the pub/restaurant had already reported it, we were not expecting to receive a PCN or did we agree to pay £100 on top of our pound. The driver did not have any legal intention to accept an unfair term, which under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 is not binding on a consumer.

Since the newspaper articles have come out I see that Armtrac has cancelled several of the PCNs, but not mine. I will complain to the IPC about this, as they recently tweeted that they expect all parking operators to 'do what is fair and reasonable using digital technology in a parking context'.

This has not happened in my case.

1505grandad

"On 27th June he had a Armtrac Penalty notice dated 22nd June....."

And it is definitely NOT a penalty notice (you will not find that word  -  also the word fine  -  in any of their documents. It is an invoice.

LW-Worcs

Sorry 1505grandad - rushing to type.  You are right it is not a Penalty notice, the letter says it is a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) and I understand what you mean about invoice as it appears we entered into a contract with Armtrac the moment we parked the car, though we abided by the contract by paying!

Thanks Coupon-Mad.  I will copy the wording you suggest and log on to Armtrac website later and have managed a sneek look at IAS website for appeals - there's lots of bad press about them too, 4% success rate it said on this lovely helpful forum (on another page I managed to find) but if there is no detriment to appeal within 21 day period and from their flowchart is free and  "The result will not be binding on you but will be binding on the operator." we have nothing to lose and it is seeming less hopeful today that an appeal is necessary but not likely to be successful.  Thank goodness for such lovely people like all of you helping others. 

I really feel for the Rockpool Cafe too as now I can see this must be a massive problem for them, just a shame if they have no allegiance to Armtrac then why not put a note in the window recommending not to use the car park or photograph tickets - they may see this as bad press but the horse as bolted so to speak - they already seem to have lots of unhappy customers who might not return.  We stayed in a family chalet and I had hoped not to spread the word having recommended this cafe but will have to warn them now, it's the right thing to do sadly.  I hate saying that as I am not one to post bad reviews or spread bad news about a company, I always try and sort any issues out directly.

zhonguonuren

@Coupon-mad
I am going today. I had to wait for my partner in crime to be available to video me 😎

Coupon-mad

zhonguonuren said:

@Coupon-mad
I am going today. I had to wait for my partner in crime to be available to video me 😎

Aha! Thank you so much.

Wonder if they've sorted the dodgy machine out, but even if they have then a recording of the Rockpool staff would be really useful, asking them when this all started and was the machine changed at some point, if they think that caused it suddenly?

zhonguonuren

I went today and bought a ticket with my own registration number (just in case I took too long with the process!) My reg is short so then I used a normal sized registration number (vehicle known to me) and bought another ticket.  Both worked perfectly.  I have both tickets and a recording.

The sign makes it clear that the carpark is separate to the cafe.  

Did motorists see this article about the Sennen Carpark?  

Coupon-mad

Yes we did see the articles!  So the machine at Rockpool has been fixed then. That's good for future motorists.

Thanks for finding this out, @zhonguonuren

zhonguonuren

@Coupon-mad

I just read your post through again.  

Hopefully anyone who had a problem will be successful at appeal.  It was clearly known that a problem existed.  

If I can help with a personal witness statement for your friend DM me.  I can go and sit in the cafe for a couple of hours and have lunch when the staff is much more likely to open up. 

Coupon-mad

Thankyou, but my friend's one is cancelled now (Armtrac threw in the towel at IAS).  However, I have their authority to pursue further complaints on their behalf.