Inner porch door, outer door glass?

markin

greensalad said:

TELLIT01 said:

markin said:

Would the original have had a door at all? Build a bigger insulated porch and drop the inner door altogether?

And as the door opens out, The path should have been doubled with a big step for people to step back off.


Thinking about it again, if your replacing the outer door make it smaller so you can just line the walls with 100mm insulation board, If its not a brick cavity wall already, Then you can get rid of the internal door that way as well.

On my road road we have houses with the 2 narrow double doors, And the outward opening doors, non of them options really work that well.

Are you a builder?  You seem very keen to create as big a job as possible.   The OP doesn't mention any step on the outside, big or small.  As for doing away with the inner door, that's something I would never do.  Not only does the enclosed porch keep the cold and draughts out, it's an extra layer of defence if anybody does try to break in.

There's no step, though there should be because it's quite a significant step up. We are planning to get one done when we redo our driveway and redo the whole stepping-stone path. But that's a way off yet.

I don't want to do away with the inner door, we like having a porch. It's just trying to convince people to use it as one, hence me trying to make the front door more "porch-like". 

I might stick a sign up and see how we go. 

 People don't tent to stand on the steps, Its rude to isn't it?  And with frosted glass no one will see its a porch in its current state. With modern DG to keep the heat in, i just don't see the point of having a tiny one.

Can we get an outside photo?

greensalad

Outdoor photo.

My suggestion was to not frost the outer door, but have it completely clear. Basically here are my options:

1) New front door on the inner, a normal doory-type door (with a little frosted glazing). Then full clear glass outer door and sidelight, showing obvious porchiness.
2) Just replace front door with clear glazed, and sticky-frost current inside door. Cheapest but my OH doesn't want to. Thinks inside door will look like "dentist's waiting room"
3) Leave inner clear door, just get a nice new normal doory-type door, thus making front of house look lovely but not solving issue at all

I'm actually leaning towards saying sod it and going option 3, and then putting up a small sign for whichever delivery drivers care to read it (suspect few and far between). The current front door has to go either way. It's crap, old, and sticky to lock. If I wanted to go for a purely aesthetic route I'd go option 3. Option 1 though was my attempt to actually fix the usage of the doorways.

markin

I think what ever option you go with parcels will still be left outside, Drop and Run. And for anyone that knocks on the door the path is the main danger with tripping up, it looks far too narrow even with the step removed making it look a little bigger.

I would just get 4 slabs to widen and level it up as a top priority, Or take up and use the ones already there, does the postman use them from a gate, Or just come up the driveway. 


Your door is i think 10cm wider than the one below that opens in, But it would still be very awkward getting in and out, And if you have a bag its a side step to get in, It always looks funny if i see them come in and out. 


 

Bendy_House

greensalad said:

You're going to tell me there's an unmoveable object in that LH cupboard...?

I think what I'd do - regardless, as there's literally ways around it - is to move that internal door inwards by whatever is needed to allow the ext door to open the way it bludy should. Outwardly-opening doors are the work of the devil's nastiest cousin.

You'll need around 250mm extra depth? It's not helped by the dropped ceiling above the door, but to add another false drop at the new location to match the current is not hard.

If that cupboard can be trimmed down to accommodate that ~250mm, then to move that whole door and side window is not hard - remove door, remove glazed unit, unscrew frame, move it. Make good.

If that cupboard cannot be trimmed down enough, then move the frame over it, add an extra horizontal transom to the glass section above that unit, panel-in the lower part around the unit (add a wee bit of insulation, or use the foamed PVC panels you get for the job), and get a smaller DG unit for the upper part. Or - not so nice - panel-in the whole side window.

Get that outer door opening inwards if you at all possibly can. It will keep the devil away, make ingress and egress waaay more saferer, improve the outside appearance beyond measure, and add £ks to your house's value.

Nice floor - may I ask what it is, please?

plumb1_2

Just replace the door panels, simple job.

greensalad

Bendy_House said:

greensalad said:

You're going to tell me there's an unmoveable object in that LH cupboard...?

I think what I'd do - regardless, as there's literally ways around it - is to move that internal door inwards by whatever is needed to allow the ext door to open the way it bludy should. Outwardly-opening doors are the work of the devil's nastiest cousin.

You'll need around 250mm extra depth? It's not helped by the dropped ceiling above the door, but to add another false drop at the new location to match the current is not hard.

If that cupboard can be trimmed down to accommodate that ~250mm, then to move that whole door and side window is not hard - remove door, remove glazed unit, unscrew frame, move it. Make good.

If that cupboard cannot be trimmed down enough, then move the frame over it, add an extra horizontal transom to the glass section above that unit, panel-in the lower part around the unit (add a wee bit of insulation, or use the foamed PVC panels you get for the job), and get a smaller DG unit for the upper part. Or - not so nice - panel-in the whole side window.

Get that outer door opening inwards if you at all possibly can. It will keep the devil away, make ingress and egress waaay more saferer, improve the outside appearance beyond measure, and add £ks to your house's value.

Nice floor - may I ask what it is, please?

Ooof, that sounds like a bigger job than I'm willing to take on to be honest!

And the floor is Kronotex Robusto in "Harbour Oak". Really lovely laminate. We liked it so much, we were able to buy more and redid a whole other room (plus we have plans to do two further rooms so the entire downstairs is the same).

Bendy_House

greensalad said:

Bendy_House said:

greensalad said:

You're going to tell me there's an unmoveable object in that LH cupboard...?

I think what I'd do - regardless, as there's literally ways around it - is to move that internal door inwards by whatever is needed to allow the ext door to open the way it bludy should. Outwardly-opening doors are the work of the devil's nastiest cousin.

You'll need around 250mm extra depth? It's not helped by the dropped ceiling above the door, but to add another false drop at the new location to match the current is not hard.

If that cupboard can be trimmed down to accommodate that ~250mm, then to move that whole door and side window is not hard - remove door, remove glazed unit, unscrew frame, move it. Make good.

If that cupboard cannot be trimmed down enough, then move the frame over it, add an extra horizontal transom to the glass section above that unit, panel-in the lower part around the unit (add a wee bit of insulation, or use the foamed PVC panels you get for the job), and get a smaller DG unit for the upper part. Or - not so nice - panel-in the whole side window.

Get that outer door opening inwards if you at all possibly can. It will keep the devil away, make ingress and egress waaay more saferer, improve the outside appearance beyond measure, and add £ks to your house's value.

Nice floor - may I ask what it is, please?

Ooof, that sounds like a bigger job than I'm willing to take on to be honest!

And the floor is Kronotex Robusto in "Harbour Oak". Really lovely laminate. We liked it so much, we were able to buy more and redid a whole other room (plus we have plans to do two further rooms so the entire downstairs is the same).

A couple of points - it's really no bigger a job than replacing the outside door. A bit extra of 'making good' afterwards. Otherwise, very similar - remove door, unscrew frame, reposition. (And box in above the door.)

2nd point - it's should be a lot less cost, as you are not having to buy a new door(s).

3rd (yeah, I fibbed about there being two...), It'll be BY FAR the best solution. In fact, I would say it's the only proper solution to all the issues you currently have, and those that will remain with any alternative. And BY FAR the best looking solution, especially from the outside. Soz - outwards-opening doors just don't look right.

4th point - just thought of it, but I checked and it will work - there will even be room for you to stand in the enlarged porch with the inside door closed, if you are dealing with deliveries or cold-callers in winter.

Thanks, I'll check out that flooring as the colour and finish looks spot on :-)

greensalad

Bendy_House said:

greensalad said:

Bendy_House said:

greensalad said:

You're going to tell me there's an unmoveable object in that LH cupboard...?

I think what I'd do - regardless, as there's literally ways around it - is to move that internal door inwards by whatever is needed to allow the ext door to open the way it bludy should. Outwardly-opening doors are the work of the devil's nastiest cousin.

You'll need around 250mm extra depth? It's not helped by the dropped ceiling above the door, but to add another false drop at the new location to match the current is not hard.

If that cupboard can be trimmed down to accommodate that ~250mm, then to move that whole door and side window is not hard - remove door, remove glazed unit, unscrew frame, move it. Make good.

If that cupboard cannot be trimmed down enough, then move the frame over it, add an extra horizontal transom to the glass section above that unit, panel-in the lower part around the unit (add a wee bit of insulation, or use the foamed PVC panels you get for the job), and get a smaller DG unit for the upper part. Or - not so nice - panel-in the whole side window.

Get that outer door opening inwards if you at all possibly can. It will keep the devil away, make ingress and egress waaay more saferer, improve the outside appearance beyond measure, and add £ks to your house's value.

Nice floor - may I ask what it is, please?

Ooof, that sounds like a bigger job than I'm willing to take on to be honest!

And the floor is Kronotex Robusto in "Harbour Oak". Really lovely laminate. We liked it so much, we were able to buy more and redid a whole other room (plus we have plans to do two further rooms so the entire downstairs is the same).

A couple of points - it's really no bigger a job than replacing the outside door. A bit extra of 'making good' afterwards. Otherwise, very similar - remove door, unscrew frame, reposition. (And box in above the door.)

2nd point - it's should be a lot less cost, as you are not having to buy a new door(s).

3rd (yeah, I fibbed about there being two...), It'll be BY FAR the best solution. In fact, I would say it's the only proper solution to all the issues you currently have, and those that will remain with any alternative. And BY FAR the best looking solution, especially from the outside. Soz - outwards-opening doors just don't look right.

4th point - just thought of it, but I checked and it will work - there will even be room for you to stand in the enlarged porch with the inside door closed, if you are dealing with deliveries or cold-callers in winter.

Thanks, I'll check out that flooring as the colour and finish looks spot on :-)

I think one issue you may have not considered (and was advised to us by our builder) is that the porch is not insulated. I believe taking out the inner door without doing a far chunk of work to the current porch would make it no longer "outside the envelope of the house"? I'm having this issue at the moment with an unheated conservatory where previous owners removed the inner doors. It actually came up on the survey as an issue. I believe in order to remove the inner door I would have to do some work to insulate the porch area if we completely removed the inner door. Do you know what might need doing here? I'm intrigued by it, and could run it past my builder in a few weeks but keen to hear ideas.

For reference the current porch is just the brick skin, no insulation, with wooden clapboard over the top of it (I can feel when I touch the wood it is cool, so don't think there is any insulation on that brick). The floor is laminate carried on from the hallway though with a break for the inner door frame. I am thinking I could simply get an edge strip put on the laminate end and then coir laid in the whole porch area to avoid having weird flooring issues. 

As for insulation, I'm guessing the new front door/side light combo would be put in place and properly sealed/insulated, and then plasterboard + skim over the brickwork? With some sort of moisture membrane? 

It's definitely an idea, perhaps a little more expensive than I was planning but the front door will be changing regardless (it sticks and is awkward and very old, handle breaking plus it's ugly). 

Bendy_House

These are good points, and quite possibly some insulation would ideally be needed on the newly-exposed ~250mm parts of the room walls which will now be inside a colder porch. 

In practice, I'm not sure this will actually be an issue, as these small strips of internal wall will not be unlike any internal wall which is shared with an unheated room in the house. It is not the same, not nearly as bad, as the wall being 'outside'.

If there was a concern, then the parts of these internal walls now finding themselves inside the porch can be lined with insulated plasterboard, but I doubt it'll be an issue in any event.

I got point 2 completely wrong, tho', as the whole idea IS to have a new outside door, one that opens the 'correct' way. So it won't be cheaper!

This obviously has to be your call, but I am certain it's what I would do. My priority would be to reverse that outside door.

I've just measured the 'swing' of our front door, and it's 810mm, so your internal door would likely need to move 300mm. 

Who would be doing the job? A general builder? A 'handypeep'? A competent colleague? Whoever, perhaps get quotes for a few scenarios?

markin

I guess technically my own door is one big cold bridge then, Unless a cavity was cut into the brick to separate the double skin wall, but i don't think it was, It was done in the 70's well before us.