Adding a socket

grumbler

Bendy_House said:

 Too many unknowns.

Too many? I don't see any. 
Disconnect one grey cable. If both grey cables remain live, then it's definitely a ring, not a spur (further) and you can add a spur to it.
Alternative - replace the fused junction box with a double socket and add a plug to the boiler cable. 

Section62

grumbler said:

Bendy_House said:

 Too many unknowns.

Too many? I don't see any. 
Disconnect one grey cable. If both grey cables remain live, then it's definitely a ring, not a spur (further) and you can add a spur to it.
Alternative - replace the fused junction box with a double socket and add a plug to the boiler cable. 

Definitely?

I did some work on a central heating system recently and discovered it was fed by two FCU's from two different circuits.  If I wasn't being careful I might have made the same assumption you have.

I'd never say 'definitely' about anything electrical unless I've carried out tests on it in person.  Otherwise it is just guesswork.

I agree with Bendy - there are too many unknowns in that cupboard.

grumbler

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Bendy_House said:

 Too many unknowns.

Too many? I don't see any. 
Disconnect one grey cable. If both grey cables remain live, then it's definitely a ring, not a spur (further) and you can add a spur to it.
Alternative - replace the fused junction box with a double socket and add a plug to the boiler cable. 

Definitely?

I did some work on a central heating system recently and discovered it was fed by two FCU's from two different circuits.  If I wasn't being careful I might have made the same assumption you have.

Can you elaborate on this?
Here we have one boiler (not a 'system') and one FCU. Do you mean there can be another FCU connecting the this one to another ring or MCB? This makes no sense to me and if it's really the case this is just dangerous as it is.
If it's connected to the same ring, then it's possibly against the regulations, but adding a spur or replacing the FCU with a socket doesn't change much IMO and doesn't create any danger.

Bendy_House

Cough - one of the 'unknowns' was the competence of the poster :-)

So my 'number 2' solution was aimed at the OP in this case - yes, it's a wee bit of a bodge, but the fellow seemed to be looking for a DIY solution, and it's the only one I'd entertain giving.

Whilst I do take S62's caution on board, and I am not questioning whether he is 'right' (he sort of is), the actual risk he described is not only teeny, but is one undertaken by countless folk on a daily basis.

IF the OP wishes to undertake this task themselves, then a slightly alternative method - to possibly answer some of S62's concerns - would be to run a flexible cable through to the garage as before, going to a plugtop as before, fused appropriately as before, and coming through to that cupboard to supply a wall-mounted socket and pattress box.

Or, use a switched multi-way extension thing. Is my setup for my son dangerous?

itssmallstuff

B Boiler

G Garage , covered. Own ring circuit
P printer 

Section62

grumbler said:

Can you elaborate on this?

Here we have one boiler (not a 'system') and one FCU.

The boiler will be part of a central heating 'system', unless it is a gravity system with no timer then there will be other components in the system.  That's one of the unknowns... what else is there other than a FCU marked "boiler"? Do we even know this FCU feeds the boiler (anymore?)

grumbler said:

Do you mean there can be another FCU connecting the this one to another ring or MCB? This makes no sense to me and if it's really the case this is just dangerous as it is.

Who knows?  That's the point.  It is an 'unknown'.  And yes, that situation is dangerous and adding a socket doesn't make it any safer.

grumbler said:

If it's connected to the same ring, then it's possibly against the regulations, but adding a spur or replacing the FCU with a socket doesn't change much IMO and doesn't create any danger.

You've assumed the two grey cables might be part of a ring and suggested a test to determine whether it is a ring or a spur.  The problem is the proposed test cannot tell you that there is "definitely" a ring.  The test itself is based on other assumptions which may not be correct.

E.g. why do the grey cables have to be the ring?  If it was a ring then why not one white and one grey? (another unknown)

What if this fitting isn't being used as a FCU on a ring, but instead has been used as an isolator switch controlling a permanent live and switched live feed to the boiler?  It could be neither a ring nor a spur.

Connecting a socket to a circuit which is not fully understood is potentially dangerous.

There is no 'definitely' here, only unknowns.

fenwick458

a lot of unknowns indeed. Still no mention of what type of circuit the boiler is on, or if it's even RCD protected?
to sum up, if the OP has to ask the question "can I do this" then the answer is probably no.
do you mean are you allowed to do it? yes technically but to do work on electrics you are supposed to be deemed competent, if you have to ask such simple questions and fail to give such basic info, then you are absolutely not competent. 
but at the end of the day it's a simple job for an electrician, and it's definitely possible

itssmallstuff

fenwick458 said:

a lot of unknowns indeed. Still no mention of what type of circuit the boiler is on, or if it's even RCD protected?
to sum up, if the OP has to ask the question "can I do this" then the answer is probably no.
do you mean are you allowed to do it? yes technically but to do work on electrics you are supposed to be deemed competent, if you have to ask such simple questions and fail to give such basic info, then you are absolutely not competent. 
but at the end of the day it's a simple job for an electrician, and it's definitely possible

I am definitely not a pro! Yes, it's RCD protected. It's all wired in last 4 years. I'm going to get an electrician and choose to be safe than sorry thank you all

Mr.Generous

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

If it's connected to the same ring, then it's possibly against the regulations, but adding a spur or replacing the FCU with a socket doesn't change much IMO and doesn't create any danger.

You've assumed the two grey cables might be part of a ring and suggested a test to determine whether it is a ring or a spur.  The problem is the proposed test cannot tell you that there is "definitely" a ring.  The test itself is based on other assumptions which may not be correct.

E.g. why do the grey cables have to be the ring?  If it was a ring then why not one white and one grey? (another unknown)

He's assumed the 2 grey cables might be part of a ring.

He is right they MIGHT be. I'd say it's worth a check, 2 grey's and a white all look like T&E on the pic.

Disconect and test all 3 live wires, any 2 ends both live - so far so good, the 2 live likely to be an interupted ring. Then switch off the breaker(s) for the socket circuit(s) one at a time and test again. If they both go from live to dead at the same time then they are connected. IE seperated wires, both live, one breaker off both dead. If they don't go dead together I'd be wondering why!!

grumbler

Also, I'm pretty sure that inside the FCU both grey cables are connected to 'feed'; white is connected to 'load'. This can be easily checked and the white cable can be traced to the boiler nearby.