EV Discussion thread

JKenH

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

With my Leaf I recall calculating the vampire drain was 4w, or 0.96 kWh in 24 hours. That would flatten an ordinary 12v car battery in less than a day but the Leaf 12v was continuously topped up by the traction battery - you could see this was happening by the flashing lights on top of the dashboard and the clunks coming from the car. 

4W for 24 hours is .096kWh.

Never rely on memory

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I am doing my first charge tonight with my power monitor plug so will have a figure to give some assessment of the accuracy of the energy assessed by the car versus actual plug power draw.
I am doing a 140-mile round trip tomorrow so will be able to measure that as well.  It will be all mileage and no "vampire loss" energy as charging overnight today and will charge again when I return home tomorrow evening.

OK, so here goes, my non-scientific mini-data set of two, but here goes:

Full charge on the car is to 90% (as TESLA manual suggests) and the car stops the charge once the 90% is reached as measured by the car.

Saturday 22/07 = charged to full

Monday 31/07 = charged to full

• 9 days of whatever "vampire drain" occurred
• 104 miles, of which 94 were in the return journey on the Monday 31st
• Power as measured by the car 24 kWh
• Power as measured by the power monitor plug 26.29 kWh
• Power delta 10%
• 3.96 mile/kWh as measured by the plug
• 4.33 mile/kWh as measured by the car

Tuesday 01/08 = charged to full

• No days of "vampire drain"
• 143 miles
• Power as measured by the car 33 kWh
• Power as measured by the power monitor plug 37.48 kWh
• Power delta 13%
• 3.81 mile/kWh as measured by the plug
• 4.33 mile/kWh as measured by the car

On this limited review:

• I need to add 10% to the power (and costs) for those charges where I have only the car data
• "Vampire Drain" does not appear to have been significant
• If I can drive with the in car display showing 220 Wh/mile then that will mean actual 4 miles/kWh achieved.  A useful target.

Thanks for those observations. Keep them coming.

noitsnotme

Grumpy_chap said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I am doing my first charge tonight with my power monitor plug so will have a figure to give some assessment of the accuracy of the energy assessed by the car versus actual plug power draw.
I am doing a 140-mile round trip tomorrow so will be able to measure that as well.  It will be all mileage and no "vampire loss" energy as charging overnight today and will charge again when I return home tomorrow evening.

OK, so here goes, my non-scientific mini-data set of two, but here goes:

Full charge on the car is to 90% (as TESLA manual suggests) and the car stops the charge once the 90% is reached as measured by the car.

Saturday 22/07 = charged to full

Monday 31/07 = charged to full

• 9 days of whatever "vampire drain" occurred
• 104 miles, of which 94 were in the return journey on the Monday 31st
• Power as measured by the car 24 kWh
• Power as measured by the power monitor plug 26.29 kWh
• Power delta 10%
• 3.96 mile/kWh as measured by the plug
• 4.33 mile/kWh as measured by the car

Tuesday 01/08 = charged to full

• No days of "vampire drain"
• 143 miles
• Power as measured by the car 33 kWh
• Power as measured by the power monitor plug 37.48 kWh
• Power delta 13%
• 3.81 mile/kWh as measured by the plug
• 4.33 mile/kWh as measured by the car

On this limited review:

• I need to add 10% to the power (and costs) for those charges where I have only the car data
• "Vampire Drain" does not appear to have been significant
• If I can drive with the in car display showing 220 Wh/mile then that will mean actual 4 miles/kWh achieved.  A useful target.

I haven’t read back to see what model you have so not sure if you have the LFP battery.  My new model Y has the LFP battery and Tesla recommend charging it 100% at least once a week.  From advice I’ve gleaned from some of the Tesla forums I plan to keep a daily charge of 60% max and only charge to 100% once a week, unless I have a longer journey the next day. Apparently this will help with the long term battery health and reduce degradation.

Where are you getting the charging stats from in the car, I still haven’t got my head round all the apps yet?

Grumpy_chap

noitsnotme said:

I haven’t read back to see what model you have so not sure if you have the LFP battery.  My new model Y has the LFP battery and Tesla recommend charging it 100% at least once a week.  From advice I’ve gleaned from some of the Tesla forums I plan to keep a daily charge of 60% max and only charge to 100% once a week, unless I have a longer journey the next day. Apparently this will help with the long term battery health and reduce degradation.

Where are you getting the charging stats from in the car, I still haven’t got my head round all the apps yet?

Mine is a Model 3.
As far as I can tell from the manual it should be charged to 90% for daily use unless fitted with the LFP battery which you should charge to 100%.  Whether or not the car has LFP battery is from the menus on the in car display.  There is no battery type stated and that would appear to indicate not LFP in my car.

The charging stats from the car are on the app before you unlock the charge port.  As far as I can tell, once you end the charge session, the data clears and cannot be collected in the same way again - there is a display for total charge in the day, week, month, year (which is Friendly).

Here is the screen shot for my last charge:

silvercar

My podpoint app always records more KWH added to the Tesla than the OVO app. 

CKhalvashi

Grumpy_chap said:

noitsnotme said:

I haven’t read back to see what model you have so not sure if you have the LFP battery.  My new model Y has the LFP battery and Tesla recommend charging it 100% at least once a week.  From advice I’ve gleaned from some of the Tesla forums I plan to keep a daily charge of 60% max and only charge to 100% once a week, unless I have a longer journey the next day. Apparently this will help with the long term battery health and reduce degradation.

Where are you getting the charging stats from in the car, I still haven’t got my head round all the apps yet?

Mine is a Model 3.
As far as I can tell from the manual it should be charged to 90% for daily use unless fitted with the LFP battery which you should charge to 100%.  Whether or not the car has LFP battery is from the menus on the in car display.  There is no battery type stated and that would appear to indicate not LFP in my car.

The charging stats from the car are on the app before you unlock the charge port.  As far as I can tell, once you end the charge session, the data clears and cannot be collected in the same way again - there is a display for total charge in the day, week, month, year (which is Friendly).

Here is the screen shot for my last charge:

I try to (manually) keep the Ioniq in the 10-90% range. OH is starting to do the same with the Enyaq.

It depends on what we are doing as to whether the cars get charged to 100%. She doesn't do anything that would require a full battery routinely but I do about once a month.

Grumpy_chap

CKhalvashi said:

I try to (manually) keep the Ioniq in the 10-90% range. OH is starting to do the same with the Enyaq.

It depends on what we are doing as to whether the cars get charged to 100%. She doesn't do anything that would require a full battery routinely but I do about once a month.

I think it would help, generally, if there was better and clearer status on how cars should be charged for best battery preservation.
In the case of the TESLA, the manual (which could be clearer) states that non-LFP should be charged to 90% for daily use and 100% for trip but LFP should be charged to 100% for daily use.  Then, elsewhere, has the split between 90% or 100% charge described in RWD or AWD terms.
Adding confusion even with only one model of one car does not help the broader understanding and take-up of EV's.

I am, annoyingly, still using the granny charger.
I have the wall charge point and the electrician has run the cable but won't connect it. 
I need a meter upgrade and fuse upgrade first. 
That means waiting on EDF to upgrade the meter, which they simply said they will send a letter within a fortnight with an appointment which will be whenever...
UKPN will not schedule a fuse upgrade until after the meter upgrade.
All seems to be a very slow process and I would have thought it was in the interests of the power companies to facilitate this quickly so that they can sell me more electricity.

It also could become limiting as I plugged in on arrival home from work on Tuesday and it was not until 8 am Wednesday morning that the car completed the charge cycle.  If I had consecutive days to work, I would have been ending the charge prematurely.

CKhalvashi

Grumpy_chap said:

CKhalvashi said:

I try to (manually) keep the Ioniq in the 10-90% range. OH is starting to do the same with the Enyaq.

It depends on what we are doing as to whether the cars get charged to 100%. She doesn't do anything that would require a full battery routinely but I do about once a month.

I think it would help, generally, if there was better and clearer status on how cars should be charged for best battery preservation.
In the case of the TESLA, the manual (which could be clearer) states that non-LFP should be charged to 90% for daily use and 100% for trip but LFP should be charged to 100% for daily use.  Then, elsewhere, has the split between 90% or 100% charge described in RWD or AWD terms.
Adding confusion even with only one model of one car does not help the broader understanding and take-up of EV's.

I am, annoyingly, still using the granny charger.
I have the wall charge point and the electrician has run the cable but won't connect it. 
I need a meter upgrade and fuse upgrade first. 
That means waiting on EDF to upgrade the meter, which they simply said they will send a letter within a fortnight with an appointment which will be whenever...
UKPN will not schedule a fuse upgrade until after the meter upgrade.
All seems to be a very slow process and I would have thought it was in the interests of the power companies to facilitate this quickly so that they can sell me more electricity.

It also could become limiting as I plugged in on arrival home from work on Tuesday and it was not until 8 am Wednesday morning that the car completed the charge cycle.  If I had consecutive days to work, I would have been ending the charge prematurely.

Samsung for my phone recommend 80%.

I believe the original Prius used 20-80% instead of 0-100, the gen2 used a slightly narrower band IIRC, but they've stood the test of time as hybrids, even in difficult conditions. I believe the only time I've seen one where the battery pack didn't work as I'd expect was a taxi in Georgia and to be fair, the driver drove it hard most of the way. I of course don't know how long he'd had the car or how long it'd been in taxi use. We went from a property on the right bank (close to Moedanis Zaarbruckeni to the airport if that helps)

I completely agree though that the advice isn't clear. I find with the Ioniq that 10-90% gives the flexibility needed and 150-160 miles of range on average, but this isn't concrete. We can likely get away with a much narrower band for the Enyaq, but there will still be occasions that it'll need to go to 100% before a trip (due to not wanting to charge until we're in Belgium ideally anyway and wanting to keep rapid charging to a minimum for battery longevity under my understanding of battery packs).

Not sure on the owners manual for us, but we do try to exercise common sense.

noitsnotme

Grumpy_chap said:

CKhalvashi said:

I try to (manually) keep the Ioniq in the 10-90% range. OH is starting to do the same with the Enyaq.

It depends on what we are doing as to whether the cars get charged to 100%. She doesn't do anything that would require a full battery routinely but I do about once a month.

I think it would help, generally, if there was better and clearer status on how cars should be charged for best battery preservation.
In the case of the TESLA, the manual (which could be clearer) states that non-LFP should be charged to 90% for daily use and 100% for trip but LFP should be charged to 100% for daily use.  Then, elsewhere, has the split between 90% or 100% charge described in RWD or AWD terms.
Adding confusion even with only one model of one car does not help the broader understanding and take-up of EV's.

I am, annoyingly, still using the granny charger.
I have the wall charge point and the electrician has run the cable but won't connect it. 
I need a meter upgrade and fuse upgrade first. 
That means waiting on EDF to upgrade the meter, which they simply said they will send a letter within a fortnight with an appointment which will be whenever...
UKPN will not schedule a fuse upgrade until after the meter upgrade.
All seems to be a very slow process and I would have thought it was in the interests of the power companies to facilitate this quickly so that they can sell me more electricity.

It also could become limiting as I plugged in on arrival home from work on Tuesday and it was not until 8 am Wednesday morning that the car completed the charge cycle.  If I had consecutive days to work, I would have been ending the charge prematurely.

There are a lot of very knowledgeable folks on the Tesla Motors Club forum that say charging to around 50-60%, unless you need more, is healthier long term for the battery and will reduce the degradation rate.  I can’t say I understand all the detail but the evidence presented seems to back them up.

I’m using the granny charger too at the moment, until my Zappi is fitted in a couple of weeks.  I’m on Octopus IO and the few nights I have charged the car I’ve been given extra cheap slots outside the standard 6 hour window.

noitsnotme

I’ve just discovered that I don’t have the Charge Stats option on the Tesla app because my car is leased and that option is only available to the primary account holder, which in my case is the lease company.