PARKING COMPANY UNABLE TO PROVE PCN DELIVERY DATE WITH NO STAMP-DATE ON ENVELOPE ?

arwest

A PCN was posted to the registered keeper's address later than the required 14 days

The 28 day for appeal expires in a couple of days.

The RK has therefore not been provided with adequate time to prepare an appeal or to consider reduced payment within 14 days which had elapsed before the delivery of the PCN.

There is no stamp- date on the envelope.

The Parking company will probably reject any appeal on this basis and most likely argue that the PCN was sent within the time frame, but how can they prove that without a stamp-dated envelope?

Is it not the company's responsibility to adequately cover itself by ensuring it's PCN's are posted with a stamp- dated envelope?

How have appeals related to this gone in the past? 

How would this stand in court if it was argued that the PCN was invalid because it was delivered later the required timeframe?

An early reply would be much appreciated due to the 28 appeal window ending very soon.

Regards

A.R. West

 

alemap7

I'm not an expert, just a fellow recipient of a "fine". The appeal window should start as of the date that the letter was issued, not the date of the offence. Are you sure you are counting the days correctly? I would register the appeal asap, especially if you have a legitimate reason. Take note of the date you received the PCN in the post for reference.

Coupon-mad

There's no requirement to serve a NTK by day 14 unless they wish to pursue the keeper under the POFA.

It is not void. A Parking firm can send a notice late (up to 6 months) driver liability only. They do not have to prove sending/posting.

You haven't said which PPC nor whether it is actually purporting to hold the keeper liable under the POFA. Wording is key.

You need to read the NEWBIES thread as this is explained there.  Some PPCs never use the POFA. Their choice.

arwest

Thanks for your reply

PPC is G24 ltd.

Yes they would have to pursue RK as no named driver, so POFA 14 day rule does apply.

How can they prove PCN was delivered within this time if no stamp date on envelope.

A

arwest

alemap7 said:

I'm not an expert, just a fellow recipient of a "fine". The appeal window should start as of the date that the letter was issued, not the date of the offence. Are you sure you are counting the days correctly? I would register the appeal asap, especially if you have a legitimate reason. Take note of the date you received the PCN in the post for reference.

alemap7 said:

I'm not an expert, just a fellow recipient of a "fine". The appeal window should start as of the date that the letter was issued, not the date of the offence. Are you sure you are counting the days correctly? I would register the appeal asap, especially if you have a legitimate reason. Take note of the date you received the PCN in the post for reference.

Yes, issue date is taken into account.

The PCN could have arrived anytime between day 13 to day 20 as RK is away.

Onus must therefore be on PPC to prove argument against late arrival.

The appeal would be based on late arrival of PCN as no proof on envelope to confirm otherwise.

Just checking on viability of this argument in eyes of independent appeal or court before appeal sent.

Coupon-mad

No that is not viable.

But just ignore them if PLAN A (see NEWBIES thread - PLAN A is not 'appeal') has not worked.  

Yes they would have to pursue RK as no named driver, so POFA 14 day rule does apply.

It doesn't. And you can't prove it.

It won't stop them, but luckily G24 haven't sued anyone in ages, so you can just ignore the debt demands (see 4th post of the NEWBIES thread).

YOU CANNOT WIN AT APPEAL.

How can they prove PCN was delivered within this time if no stamp date on envelope.

They don't have to, as I already advised.

A letter sent by 1st class post is deemed delivered within 2 working days.  Ignore them and read the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread, which is there to prevent us getting flooded with posts about tedious template debt demands!

arwest

From what I can see, the following issues of appeal left to me:-

Inadequate signage - signs displaying time allowance and their ts&cs are not placed on entry or indeed at the first half of the car park.

Incompliant signage - signage does not show grace period.

PCN photos  - The times of entry and exit are disputed. They appear to have been superimposed with a black background block onto the photograph rather than being part of the photograph.

Contradictory PCN – back of PCN ‘instructs’ RK to provide driver details. Front of PCN ‘invites’ RK to provide driver details. Does this make the PCN incompliant.

Unless Ive missed something, the rest of the PCN and car park signage appear to be compliant.

If these arguments do not stand then no point in appealing and I will give driver details.  In this instance, will the driver be given the option of paying at the discounted rate even though the RK has responded after the 14 day discount rate.

If diverting me to the newbies thread then please provide a relevant link,. I have already searched there extensively for these answers without success.

Please don’t ignore this post as the previous one, if no time to reply then just say so and I will stop posting

Thankyou

Coupon-mad

Will G24 re-issue the PCN with discount to the driver? Who knows, TBH.

Whether they will or not, is up to them because there are no rules and pretty much anything an IPC firm can get away with avoiding, they tend to try.

But it doesn't matter, because no-one would pay this. It is not to be paid to make it go away.

As I said earlier:

YOU CANNOT WIN AT APPEAL.

just ignore them if PLAN A (see NEWBIES thread - PLAN A is not 'appeal') has not worked.  
luckily G24 haven't sued anyone in ages, so you can just ignore the debt demands (see 4th post of the NEWBIES thread).

arwest

An update on the situation is that the retailer has finally emailed me back and confirmed that they have asked the PPC to waiver the PCN.

Are the PPC legally obliged to follow this instruction from the retailer or can they ignore and still pursue the RK for the PCN.

Who has final say on such matters.

I only ask because if I still have to appeal then I have to prepare and submit it by tomorrow midnight.

The retailer confirmed that they would update me upon a reply from the PPC but I may not get that till after the midnight deadline tomorrow.

Thank you again

Coupon-mad

Are the PPC legally obliged to follow this instruction from the retailer?

No.

 only ask because if I still have to appeal then I have to prepare and submit it by tomorrow midnight.

First appeal stage? Just do it and state that the retailer has confirmed they require the PCN cancelled.

Don't use the word 'waiver' - wrong word! That's not what it means.

pacemaker1000

Sorry to hijack this post but can’t see a way to make a new one and this is close to my problem.
received PCN from NCP today which falls way outside the 14 day rule. In fact 28 days to the day!
charge is for not paying correct amount although there is a witness to say machine not working correctly and never gave the option to pick duration just a set amount.
responded without admitting ownership or driver or machine fault but just pointing out the failure to comply with legislation on notification
Sound OK?
thanks