What does fit for purpose mean

Bluesman1

Last night I opened an online ordered laptop from John Lewis. In setting it up I found the touchpad and left click stuff, much more so than my existing laptop. I changed the touchpad settings from medium to light touch but still find the presses stuff, to the extent that I believe they will cause me RSI, something I'm wary of as I've had it  before from a laptop.

I'm saying to John Lewis that it's not fit for purpose but they say that as the box has been opened and the laptop started, their conditions so I have no rights to return it - are they right?

Jenni_D

Stuff? Do you mean Stiff?

Can you described what you mean a bit better please? (I'm struggling to understand the problem. Although I tend to use a USB or wireless mouse, I do on occasions use a touchpad and have never found them hard to use. Touchpad buttons have been easy, and even for left-click I often simply tap the touchpad - or double tap for double-click).

As to your specific question ... if the mouse pointer moves when you move your finger on the touchpad, and the left/right click actions work when you press the buttons, then the touchpad is "fit for purpose", as the purpose is to provide those functions.

shiraz99

Fitness for purposes simply means goods (and services) must be capable of being used for the intended purpose they are being sold for.

To me this sounds like a personal preference issue rather than any specific fault or issue with the laptop, ie, other users may find it works perfectly well. That said, as it was purchased online then you may be able to seek a refund under distance selling regulations, specifically the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 (CCRs). I'd return the laptop back to factory settings and explain to JL that your are cancelling your contract within the terms of the CCRs which allow you to handle the goods "necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods", in other words "the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop". If you've not gone beyond this then JL can't deduct anything from any refund. In any case the seller can simply not deny your right to cancel and return the laptop.

Ergates

Bluesman1 said:

Last night I opened an online ordered laptop from John Lewis. In setting it up I found the touchpad and left click stuff, much more so than my existing laptop. I changed the touchpad settings from medium to light touch but still find the presses stuff, to the extent that I believe they will cause me RSI, something I'm wary of as I've had it  before from a laptop.

I'm saying to John Lewis that it's not fit for purpose but they say that as the box has been opened and the laptop started, their conditions so I have no rights to return it - are they right?

If you're using a laptop for long enough periods to develop RSI then you should be getting a separate mouse and keyboard - *any* long term laptop use is a health risk, as it is not possible to sit in with good posture whilst using a laptop keyboard.

The_Fat_Controller

Unless there is a fault you have no right to return the laptop once it has been set up.

The operation of a touchpad is subjective and with the latest OS there is no need to use the physical clicks.

Even doing so, as it moves less than 1mm RSI should not be an issue.

shiraz99

The_Fat_Controller said:

Unless there is a fault you have no right to return the laptop once it has been set up.

The operation of a touchpad is subjective and with the latest OS there is no need to use the physical clicks.

Even doing so, as it moves less than 1mm RSI should not be an issue.

I disagree, for the reasons I've mentioned above.

This has been discussed many times over the years and simply starting up a laptop for the first time and allowing Windows to install, etc, does not go beyond what is necessary to "establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods". If that were the case it would render it impossible to see the characteristics of the screen, for example, or in this case the operation of the trackpad. To say something can't be "set up" is a red herring. Regardless, to say the OP has no right to return is just plain wrong.

Manxman_in_exile

I'm inclined to agree with @shiraz99 regarding all this "you can't return it if you've set it up stuff"

If you go into a JL shop you can check how the screen looks, how the keyboard works etc and with this laptop I'm using now I was even allowed to plug in some headphones to check what the sound was like before I bought it.  (Indeed, anybody who bought a laptop from a physical store without checking all those features etc would be crazy).

If you couldn't do all that it would render the proviso that the consumer is allowed to handle the goods sufficiently "to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning" of the goods meaningless.  The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)

That proviso also says that in order for the trader to refuse a full refund, the goods must have been diminished in value by the excessive handling.  It's not clear to me that (providing the laptop can be returned to a factory setting) that there has been any reduction in value at all by just setting the laptop up.

The OP should try:

"Escalated Complaints Process

If you've contacted us and you feel that we haven't resolved your complaint satisfactorily, please email or write to our Head of Customer Service Team:

Email: Head_of_Customer_Service@johnlewis.co.uk

Write: Customer Relations Department, John Lewis & Partners, PO Box 3586, Glasgow G73 9DW"

EDIT:  As I posted in another thread yesterday, I think a lot of these "distance sale" disputes arise because the consumer has not made it perfectly clear that they are returning the goods for a refund by exercising their statutory right to cancel the contract, and that they are not returning the goods under the trader's own returns policy.

If I were in a position where I was making a "distance sale" return I would make it absolutely clear that I was exercising my statutory consumer right to cancel under s29 of the Act (see link to Act in main body of text above) in question, and not just trying to return the goods

TELLIT01

Being able to test a laptop in-store doesn't mean the one purchased will always be exactly the same.  It's crazy to say that a computer can't be returned once it's been powered up.  Plenty of potential issues couldn't be identified until it had been powered up.

Ath_Wat

Manxman_in_exile said:

I'm inclined to agree with @shiraz99 regarding all this "you can't return it if you've set it up stuff"

If you go into a JL shop you can check how the screen looks, how the keyboard works etc and with this laptop I'm using now I was even allowed to plug in some headphones to check what the sound was like before I bought it.  (Indeed, anybody who bought a laptop from a physical store without checking all those features etc would be crazy).

What you can't do in a  shop, and what "set up" really means, is set it up with all your personal account information.

Jenni_D

Ath_Wat said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I'm inclined to agree with @shiraz99 regarding all this "you can't return it if you've set it up stuff"

If you go into a JL shop you can check how the screen looks, how the keyboard works etc and with this laptop I'm using now I was even allowed to plug in some headphones to check what the sound was like before I bought it.  (Indeed, anybody who bought a laptop from a physical store without checking all those features etc would be crazy).

What you can't do in a  shop, and what "set up" really means, is set it up with all your personal account information.

But you can't usually "establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods" without doing this first - it's part of the turning it on process. And a factory reset wipes this all anyway.

powerful_Rogue

Jenni_D said:

Ath_Wat said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I'm inclined to agree with @shiraz99 regarding all this "you can't return it if you've set it up stuff"

If you go into a JL shop you can check how the screen looks, how the keyboard works etc and with this laptop I'm using now I was even allowed to plug in some headphones to check what the sound was like before I bought it.  (Indeed, anybody who bought a laptop from a physical store without checking all those features etc would be crazy).

What you can't do in a  shop, and what "set up" really means, is set it up with all your personal account information.

But you can't usually "establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods" without doing this first - it's part of the turning it on process. And a factory reset wipes this all anyway.

A factory reset does not wipe your data. It just makes it hidden until it's written over on the HDD/SDD.