What does fit for purpose mean

Jenni_D

The next person to switch it on will go through the exact same setup process, so to all intents and purposes (to anyone but a data hacker) the laptop is still as it would appear originally.

The_Fat_Controller

If you suspect you may have an issue operating a touchpad/trackpad/mouse all the more reason to actually find a demo model and try before you buy.

Manxman_in_exile

The_Fat_Controller said:

If you suspect you may have an issue operating a touchpad/trackpad/mouse all the more reason to actually find a demo model and try before you buy.

But isn't that the whole purpose of the legislation allowing a consumer to cancel the purchase and return for a refund if they are not happy after "establishing the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods"?

Manxman_in_exile

Ath_Wat said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I'm inclined to agree with @shiraz99 regarding all this "you can't return it if you've set it up stuff"

If you go into a JL shop you can check how the screen looks, how the keyboard works etc and with this laptop I'm using now I was even allowed to plug in some headphones to check what the sound was like before I bought it.  (Indeed, anybody who bought a laptop from a physical store without checking all those features etc would be crazy).

What you can't do in a  shop, and what "set up" really means, is set it up with all your personal account information.

As Jenni_D has said, if it is necessary to "set up" the laptop to establish its nature, characteristics and functioning, then the law would seem expressly to allow the consumer to do so.

Manxman_in_exile

There is one point that may have been missed.  (And I may have missed it too!)

I have assumed - perhaps wrongly - that although the OP has expressed their question in terms of "what does fit for purpose mean", that they are actually still entitled to return the laptop as an online "change of mind cancellation".  I've based this assumption on the OP saying that they only set up the laptop last night - so I've presumed they are still within the cancellation period.  Without knowing when it was purchased I might be mistaken...

Manxman_in_exile

Assuming that the OP is still within the online cancellation period (but see my previous post) my understanding is that JL simply cannot refuse to accept the OP's cancellation and they cannot refuse to accept a return on the grounds that the box has been opened and the computer turned on.

The best they can do is to deduct from any refund an amount to reflect the dimunition in value resulting from the consumer's "excessive handling".

I can't believe that the OP opening up the box the computer was delivered in and turning it on could ever result in a 100% decrease in value.  Indeed, I doubt it results in any significant reduction in value at all.

Thus the OP can cancel the contract and get a refund (which I would argue should be a full refund) despite what JL say.

Ergates

One of the exclusions from right to return is (I forget the wording), unsealed software.

Switching on and setting up a laptop might constitute unsealing the software on the laptop - and there could be license implications if the laptop came with some licensed software as a package (e.g. if, as part of the set up process, you registered the software in your name).  It could mean the the shop would no longer be able to sell the laptop as new and/or it would cost them money to "reset" or whatever.

I suspect that this is one instance where the legislation as currently written doesn't really work very well.

shiraz99

Ath_Wat said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I'm inclined to agree with @shiraz99 regarding all this "you can't return it if you've set it up stuff"

If you go into a JL shop you can check how the screen looks, how the keyboard works etc and with this laptop I'm using now I was even allowed to plug in some headphones to check what the sound was like before I bought it.  (Indeed, anybody who bought a laptop from a physical store without checking all those features etc would be crazy).

What you can't do in a  shop, and what "set up" really means, is set it up with all your personal account information.

Again this is just a red herring and something some retailers like to hide behind. If the "set up" is integral to the switching the machine on for the first time and being able to see how it works and therefore cannot be avoided then it can't be used to avoid the consumer's right to fully "establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods" etc.

born_again

Bluesman1 said:

Last night I opened an online ordered laptop from John Lewis. In setting it up I found the touchpad and left click stuff, much more so than my existing laptop. I changed the touchpad settings from medium to light touch but still find the presses stuff, to the extent that I believe they will cause me RSI, something I'm wary of as I've had it  before from a laptop.

I'm saying to John Lewis that it's not fit for purpose but they say that as the box has been opened and the laptop started, their conditions so I have no rights to return it - are they right?

I don't think that a stiff track pad would be classed as not fit for purpose. As it will get better over time.

But if you have had RSI once before from a laptop. I got this at work. I have always used a trackball at home & have no issues as you only really move your thumb on the ball to move the pointer & press down on left of right mouse button. There is not movement of the wrist to cause RSI.

shiraz99

Ergates said:

One of the exclusions from right to return is (I forget the wording), unsealed software.

Switching on and setting up a laptop might constitute unsealing the software on the laptop - and there could be license implications if the laptop came with some licensed software as a package (e.g. if, as part of the set up process, you registered the software in your name).  It could mean the the shop would no longer be able to sell the laptop as new and/or it would cost them money to "reset" or whatever.

I suspect that this is one instance where the legislation as currently written doesn't really work very well.

If you are referring to Section 28 (3b) - "in the case of a contract for the supply of sealed audio or sealed video recordings or sealed computer software, if the goods become unsealed after delivery;" then you are conflating two different things. Going through the set up process when starting a PC for the first time does not constitute breaking the seal of computer software.