First parking fine, appeal rejected, is it unfair?

Chris4

Hello,

I recently got my first parking fine (yayyy...), but knew what to do and headed straight to MSE. Confident it was unfair due to no signage, I decided to go for the appeal process and sent a photo I took and the first screenshot below from Google Maps. They've declined it however and referred me to POPA. So I just want to confirm with the more experienced here that my parking fine is indeed unfair...

This car park has two entrances - the main entrance which is 3 hours stay, and then a side entrance from the train station with some separated bays which were not clear what they were. This is the entrance I entered from. You'll see there's no signage when you enter...



And next to the bays is a sign that says '3 hours max stay'. So clearly 3 hours right?



You'll see there's some faded painted marking above suggesting 'xx mins' or something. This Google Maps photo is actually old and at the time they looked completely unreadable like this:



So although I was a little concerned, I could see the "3 hours max stay" sign right next to it and parked there for 1.5 hours.

Low and behold, I get a ticket through some weeks later to say it was "30 minutes max stay"...

So I check Google Maps to find evidence of this, and it's only when I check the OTHER side of the sign - which I didn't see as I didn't drive in or walk that way - that it says "30 minutes max stay".



Would you consider this unfair and worthy of fighting / ignoring? Or is this classed as fair and I'd be better off paying it?

Many thanks,

Chris

Coupon-mad

Wow Chris, that is brilliant evidence. Which PPC has allowed that trap to unfold by not maintaining the yellow paint and having a sign with what you needed to know on the back of it?

Chris4

Coupon-mad said:

Wow Chris, that is brilliant evidence. Which PPC has allowed that trap to unfold by not maintaining the yellow paint and having a sign with what you needed to know on the back of it?

It's operated by Parkingeye and owned by Harlow Exchange, a retail development next to a Toby Carvery, Travelodge and Harlow Town Train Station.

A quick Google for 'Harlow Exchange car park' shows people falling victim to this same trap over 5 years ago.

Umkomaas

Here's a similar case from a few years back. Unfortunately, the thread originator, having had a good deal of expert advice from regulars on how to proceed with their case, didn't see fit to inform the forum of the outcome. Happening too often and provides no encouragement to regulars to keep burning the midnight oil to help total strangers with their problem. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5766329/parking-eye-and-popla/p1

fisherjim

Absolutely no signage at all on that entrance, illegible floor markings, and a sign next to your parking space stating quite clearly 3 hours maximum stay, I would assume that meant where you parked also!

Excellent evidence along with historical data back five years showing Parkin Eye have blatantly exploited this honey trap for profit.

I would also complain to trading standards and to the BPA who should be held to account as to why their so called auditing clearly stated in their COP has not been actioned or followed!

6.3

We will audit you at least once a year.The audit will be
done by our compliance team or our appointed auditors
to check that you are keeping to the terms of the Code.
If we find any non-compliance issues you must put them
right within an agreed time.We will also record any
complaints we receive about our members.

6.6

If we find there has been a failure to comply with the
Code, either during a complaint investigation or a
compliance audit, you must make appropriate changes to
your business operation to bring it into compliance

19.2

Entrance signs play an important part in establishing a
parking contract and deterring trespassers. Therefore,
as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about
the terms and conditions for parking, you must also have
a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the
parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car
park is managed and that there are terms and conditions
they must be aware of. Entrance signs must follow some
minimum general principles and be in a standard format.
The size of the sign must take into account the expected
speed of vehicles approaching the car park, and it is
recommended that you follow Department for Transport
guidance on this. See Appendix B for an example of an
entrance sign and more information about their use.
A standard form of entrance sign must be placed at the
entrance to the parking area.

Chris4

Thanks @fisherjim

Is it possible they could have got around this because they have a sign at the other entrance?

Chris4

Umkomaas said:

Here's a similar case from a few years back. Unfortunately, the thread originator, having had a good deal of expert advice from regulars on how to proceed with their case, didn't see fit to inform the forum of the outcome. Happening too often and provides no encouragement to regulars to keep burning the midnight oil to help total strangers with their problem. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5766329/parking-eye-and-popla/p1

Thanks @Umkomaas, following the advice in that discussion and just out of interest, I paid £3 to Land Registry find out who owns Harlow Exchange retail area & car park. It is NEW FRONTIER CAPITAL LTD (Co. Regn. No. 04461971) of Dorland House, 14-16 Regent Street, London SW1Y 4PH. 

I'm looking to submit complaints to Trading Standards and the BPA as @fisherjim suggested, so will mention them. 

molerat

Chris4 said:

Thanks @fisherjim

Is it possible they could have got around this because they have a sign at the other entrance?

The one that states "3 HOUR MAXIMUM STAY" in big letters ?

fisherjim

molerat said:

Chris4 said:

Thanks @fisherjim

Is it possible they could have got around this because they have a sign at the other entrance?

The one that states "3 HOUR MAXIMUM STAY" in big letters ?

But you didn't drive in through that entrance the signage must be visible at the entrance you used

Chris4

molerat said:

Chris4 said:

Thanks @fisherjim

Is it possible they could have got around this because they have a sign at the other entrance?

The one that states "3 HOUR MAXIMUM STAY" in big letters ?

Yes? Not sure your point. Like I said this is at the OTHER entrance that I DID NOT enter through. I was asking fisherjim a question in relation to the COP.

fisherjim said:

molerat said:

Chris4 said:

Thanks @fisherjim

Is it possible they could have got around this because they have a sign at the other entrance?

The one that states "3 HOUR MAXIMUM STAY" in big letters ?

But you didn't drive in through that entrance the signage must be visible at the entrance you used

I was just curious as the BPA Code of Practice you shared in most cases refers to having a "sign" at the "entrance" (singular) rather than plural, it doesn't refer to having one at every entrance. 

Umkomaas

I was just curious as the BPA Code of Practice you shared in most cases refers to having a "sign" at the "entrance" (singular) rather than plural, it doesn't refer to having one at every entrance. 

More than likely because the vast majority of car parks only have one entrance.