Can they make me pay for professional clean?

Brie

Blimey - the pro cleaners are cheap in your area. 

I had a quote for ours and it was £100 and as it's a double oven that means a bill for £200.  I'm trying to get it extra dirty so I know I'll get my money's worth!!

BikingBud

"Professional clean" is not a standard that can be measured but the perceived understanding is that it will be better than a self-help clean. 

What should be clear is where the bar was set at move in and this standard needs to be achieved on move out.

If the OP feels that they can reach that standard then go for it. Drag out the photos from move in, clean the cooker to the same standard as can be supported by those photos and advise the LL that the cooker is clean.  If the LL disagrees then where is the evidence to counter the OP's claim?

If required submit before and after picture to deposit scheme for arbitration.

[Deleted User]

Ath_Wat said:

[Deleted User] said:

Ath_Wat said:

anselld said:

There is zero chance you will get a student oven clean to professional standard.  You will spend a frustrating amount of time plus some money on product and it will probably still need doing again.   Save yourselves the trouble for the sake of £20 each.

You are assuming it was professionally cleaned to begin with. if it wasn't, there is no obligation on them to hand it back in that condition.

With an oven, id say its either clean or not. There arent really degrees of cleaning. 

They don't mention that it was crusted with burnt foodstuffs when they moved in so it must have been clean...

If there are stubborn burnt on marks they will be at it for days. From personal experience. Most people wont persist like I did so the £ might be about right.

There absolutely are degrees of clean.  Look at post 5 in this thread, quoted below.  Professional oven cleaning is a specialist service, and it is not in any way the same thing as just having a clean oven.  Professionally clean is much more than not being "crusted with burnt foodstuff".

In fact I might argue that even if it was in professionally clean condition when they moved in there is no obligation to return it to that state, any more than there is a need to return a  brand new oven to brand new condition.

bouicca21 said:

Getting an oven cleaner is the best 60 quid I’ve ever spent.   The oven looked brand new as if it had just come out of the showroom.   There is no way I could have got it looking that good.

But it all comes down to what it was like when you moved in.  That’s the state you need to get it back to.

I'll go with the dictionary definition of clean,  not post 5. If it not clean sir, then Its dirty.

Ath_Wat

[Deleted User] said:

Ath_Wat said:

[Deleted User] said:

Ath_Wat said:

anselld said:

There is zero chance you will get a student oven clean to professional standard.  You will spend a frustrating amount of time plus some money on product and it will probably still need doing again.   Save yourselves the trouble for the sake of £20 each.

You are assuming it was professionally cleaned to begin with. if it wasn't, there is no obligation on them to hand it back in that condition.

With an oven, id say its either clean or not. There arent really degrees of cleaning. 

They don't mention that it was crusted with burnt foodstuffs when they moved in so it must have been clean...

If there are stubborn burnt on marks they will be at it for days. From personal experience. Most people wont persist like I did so the £ might be about right.

There absolutely are degrees of clean.  Look at post 5 in this thread, quoted below.  Professional oven cleaning is a specialist service, and it is not in any way the same thing as just having a clean oven.  Professionally clean is much more than not being "crusted with burnt foodstuff".

In fact I might argue that even if it was in professionally clean condition when they moved in there is no obligation to return it to that state, any more than there is a need to return a  brand new oven to brand new condition.

bouicca21 said:

Getting an oven cleaner is the best 60 quid I’ve ever spent.   The oven looked brand new as if it had just come out of the showroom.   There is no way I could have got it looking that good.

But it all comes down to what it was like when you moved in.  That’s the state you need to get it back to.

I'll go with the dictionary definition of clean,  not post 5. If it not clean sir, then Its dirty.

OK, then as long as they clean it, it's clean.  So the landlord doesn't have a leg to stand on, by your definition.

Gycraig

Just clean it to the best of your ability and hope the deposit scheme agree with you over the landlord. 

I wouldn’t waste time going back and forth with the landlord, ultimately it’s not the landlord who decides. 

youth_leader

My daughter shared a few student houses and I helped with the cleaning when she moved out.  I'd pay for the professional clean, it's a horrible greasy dirty job.  

Durban

lisyloo said:

The landlord has nothing to prove and if the tenants  didn’t feel the property was clean before they arrived then they should have mentioned it before as they’ve been there since 2020.
Asking for proof right now ( 2 years later) is really snide just to try to deliberately trip up the Landlord over a measly 50 quid.
they almost certainly have receipts but if it was me I’d consider it pretty snidy if no report had been made in 2 years,
Its terrible advice as it’s not a reasonable action asking the landlord to prove something they don’t need to prove and risks putting the relationship on a nasty footing,

if it was me sure I’d give you the receipt but I’d definitely be checking the oven and everything else very thoroughly with a long handled mirror as you’ve now singled yourself out as tenants Looking for a loophole to get out of your responsibilities.

a professional landlord would certainly be able to evidence what you say.
here you go again being snidy and trying to trip them up when they’ve done nothing wrong and can almost certainly prove it.

If the tenants haven’t claimed any issue with the oven in 2 years then there was clearly no hygiene or cleanliness complaint.
asking someone to “prove it” is not exactly a great way to get people on side.

getting your deposit back easily is VERY MUCH a case of being reasonable and decent to the landlord.
I’ve had mine back in full straight away every time, but I’ve not tried to screw the landlord out of anything or renage on my commitments or ask them to 
prove what they did 2 years ago (of course I kept the details and pictures myself just in case).

The time to get any evidence they wanted and take pictures was 2 years ago.

if they want to clean it themselves then they should do so, but it must be equal to the condition it was in before. By all means do that.

But trying to be snidy with the landlord could backfire.
anyone who doesn’t understand what being reasonable has to do with good business relations should not be listened to.
it’s pretty obvious that !!!!!! someone off is not a good move and asking for proof of something that someone doesn’t need to defend could do just that and have all the cleaning under scrutiny and delayed.
Im sure I’m not alone in wanting to be ultra sure about a tenant who behaved in a snidy manner. I wouldn’t deliberately delay the deposit but they might do that if they gave me cause to be concerned about their behaviour.
asking me to prove mine would certainly do that.

As I say I’ve had excellent relations, but I’ve not wound anyone up and your advice definitely has the potential to do that.

The short answer in no they cannot demand a professional clean however if the amateur clean is not good enough it could delay matters and even get other elements inspected more closely.

personally I’d just pay it as getting the deposit back quickly and I full with minimum is absolutely tightly coupled with keeping a good relationship with the landlord In the short term.
Yes sure you can argue, go to court and wait months or years if you like but you may have to take time off work. Travel, get cross and wait ages, so I’d say that’s not a great way to deal with things.

This is totally wrong 

Durban

genericn17 said:

It is 100% incorrect to say "The landlord has nothing to prove". It's also incorrect to say asking for a receipt is "proof of something that someone doesn’t need to defend". If the landlord wants to make deductions from a deposit - because the oven hasn't been professionally cleaned or anything else - then it will go to the deposit protection scheme for a dispute, and the landlord will have to prove/defend the condition it was in when they moved in. That's literally why those schemes exist! And the time for the landlord to get that evidence was two years ago!

If it wasn't professionally cleaned before the tenants moved in, it's unreasonable to ask the tenants to pay now (it may still be unreasonable if they can get it to the same standards themselves.)

I don't understand why you're still talking about the tenants making a report during the tenancy - that has ZERO to do with it. It's about comparing the state when they moved in, with the state when they moved out.

Also, it's not "snidy" to not want your landlord to make unfair deductions. I paid for a professional clean when I left my last rented house because it was easier and I could afford it, but I would never have been able to afford that as a student or fresh out of uni, so I always just cleaned things myself. I've always had my deposit back in full as well, but that involved standing up for myself and challenging the landlord when they were trying to take the !!!!!! - as landlords often do. They are not your friend and you don't need to let them get away with unreasonable demands. Most likely you'll never speak to them again.

This is absolutely correct 

dimbo61

As a student Landlord with a HMO cleaning is a huge issue every year.
I also have 2 boys and spent hours cleaning their rooms and flats when they went to University.
Take photos of the Clean oven and every other room in the property when you leave.
Did the LL/LA carry out a Video Inventory or have you seen an Inventory with Photos of the condition of the property before you moved in ?
Hopefully carried out by an Independent Inventory company ?
If not they can't prove the condition of the property before you moved in.

bouicca21

Fairly pointless continuing to comment on this thread since OP hasn’t been back since the day he/she posted.