Guide discussion: Voluntary national insurance contributions

pinnks

SwiftSuzie said:

Thanks yet again, molerat. Do you have any thoughts on this bit?

I just want to see the official view on how I will stand if I send in the CF83 form now and it isn't dealt with by the deadline (which I know it won't be). Specifically, will I be able to jump ship (if necessary) from a Class 2 application to a Class 3 one in, say, December or early next year? Maybe I do what I was thinking of doing for the Class 3 contributions, and actually make the Class 2 bank transfer right now??

As stated, the decision is for HMRC.  Indeed, the decision on whether you can pay voluntary NI at all as a non-resident is for HMRC.  So, you need to submit a CF83 in any event and as long as HMRC have that by 31 July you are safe.

There are loads of comments from HMRC on this issue on their customer forum but have a look at 18 digits reference number of volunteer NI contributions - Community Forum - GOV.UK (hmrc.gov.uk) - the first entry (currently) at the top of page 2 reads:

"Hi Bruno,

HMRC will honour the date we received your CF83 application and if it is accepted, at the rate or rates you have applied for, even if we process your application after the 31 July 2023 deadline.

You will not be penalised for the delays in issuing a response to you.

For making a payment from abroad or for a period you were abroad, you do not need a 18 digit reference. This is because you cannot pay for abroad voluntary NICs online via the HMRC website.  The response will provide you with the way you can make you payments for any gaps.  

You must also check with the Future Pension Centre, part of the DWP, that making a payment will increase your State Pension entitlement prior to sending any funds to HMRC.

Thank you."

SwiftSuzie

Thanks Pinnks. I'm indebted to you. What they said to Bruno actually doesn't comfort me at all. I note that it says IF ACCEPTED they will honour at the rates you have applied for. But what if I apply for Class 2 and they don't accept it? Surely this gives them a get out for not accepting a further application to pay Class 3. I'm sorry to bang on about this and hog the page, but it's a big decision. It's scandalous that there is no easy way to communicate with them.

You wouldn't believe how easy it was to complete the same task for my overseas state pension here. Just ring up DHSS, no wait, sort out all the details then ring the tax office, pay by card online all done in 10 minutes and confirmation in the post the following day! How the mighty are fallen.

pinnks

I am not sure what you are worried about.  You have to apply to pay voluntary NI as a non-resident (I am sure that is the same in most countries) and if you read NI38 you will see that there are criteria for both Class 2 and Class 3, e.g. 3 years of UK residence.  As such why would HMRC ever give a definitive response without seeing a person's records?

If you consider that you meet the criteria listed in NI38, just complete the form and send it off - absent that the time limit will expire and you will lose the opportunity anyway.

SwiftSuzie

OK. Thanks. As stated, in the simplest terms, what I am concerned about is that they will knock back the Class 2 application after the deadline and tell me it's too late to apply to pay Class 3. I know that would be harsh of them but it wouldn't surprise me. Anyway I'm pretty much decided that I will go with the earlier suggestion and send the form requesting Class 2 but with a letter saying default to Class 3 if Class 2 not applicable, and pointing out that I've been trying to sort this without success since December. 

Anyhow I think that's me for now. Thank you sincerely to everyone who has chimed in to assist me. Definitely this best resource I've found on a difficult subject.

pinnks

But if you read what I wrote earlier, you add in your covering letter that if you cannot pay Class 2, then you will settle for Class 3. That too is from HMRC comment on the forum. 

Please go and do some reading on the HMRC forum, or better still, register as a user and post your specific concern. 

You'll normally have a reply within a day or so, so you then have your very own HMRC confirmation of all your queries and concerns.

purplecircle

I checked my NI record in January and only one incomplete year (too far back to do anything about).  I checked again today - to see if latest tax year was now showing (not yet) - and somehow an additional incomplete year has appeared: 2010-2011 - stating I made no contribution that year.  How can this happen?  It previously correctly showed as a complete year.  I know I can send a copy of my P60 in to get them to correct it, but I don’t understand how an old record can be changed like this.

molerat

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80026388#Comment_80026388

The most important question is whether it has changed your forecast - has it ?

purplecircle

molerat said:

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The most important question is whether it has changed your forecast - has it ?

Yes, as the number of complete years has now reduced by one.  I’ve sorted a letter for ‘individual caseworker’ as per Gov site and hopefully they can not only correct it but also explain how a previously complete year suddenly got changed to incomplete.

molerat

purplecircle said:

molerat said:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80026388#Comment_80026388

The most important question is whether it has changed your forecast - has it ?

Yes, as the number of complete years has now reduced by one.  I’ve sorted a letter for ‘individual caseworker’ as per Gov site and hopefully they can not only correct it but also explain how a previously complete year suddenly got changed to incomplete.

The number of complete years will have reduced but has the actual £ accrued to date changed ?  That is the important point and the decider if you want to spend time getting it corrected.

JAG

Are the two figures posted in this thread of post 2016 years adding £5.29 to the state pension and pre 2016 years adding £4.73 (with caveats) still correct now it's gone into another tax year and the % increase in pension?

I advised my friend to check their pension forecast and they are £17.47 short of the maximum £203.85 a week. They have some pre 2016 missing years available and no post 2016 years.

I sorted my pension forecast and payment of NI contributions before the new tax year when it was a maximum of £185.15 a week, so I wasn't sure if each of the additional years had increased in value as well.