Guide discussion: Voluntary national insurance contributions

jem16

SwiftSuzie said:

Thanks everyone for your sterling efforts. I found info online that supports my earlier understanding. The distinction seems to be that you can apply for Class 2 if you are still working, so there was a time when I could have, but nor now. Pity! MSE won't let me share the link as I haven't been here very long, and I might post something naughty. Again, my gratitude goes to you all.

What matters is whether or not you were working abroad during those years you want to pay voluntary NICs for. My daughter-in-law has applied and she's not working at the moment but was working in earlier years.

pinnks

That is my understanding too.  HMRC have said that people can have Class 2 for years while they were working abroad and Class 3 for any years they were not, so they end up with a mix.

I certainly wouldn't be shelling out £14k before querying that directly with HMRC, however knowledgeable and well-meaning we all are on here!

SwiftSuzie

Me again. I found the official guidance which distinguishes when you should buy Class 2 and Class 3. It says pretty much what we established above, that if you are abroad and working it's Class 2, but if you're abroad and not working it's Class 3. Of course it's still ambiguous. Do they mean "working now" or "working in the years being purchased".

Anyway, if it's helpful to anyone, here's the link:

https:// www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/who-can-pay-voluntary-contributions

But I had to break it before the www because MSE won't let me quote links.

molerat

Forget guidance, here is the law

61B.—(1) This regulation applies to Class 2 contributions which a person (“the contributor”) was entitled, but not liable, to pay in respect of one or more of the tax years 2006-07 to 2015-16 (“the relevant contribution years”).

(2) Paragraph (3) applies if the contributor—

(a)was entitled F2... to pay a Class 2 contribution in respect of one or more of the relevant contribution years;

(b)had not, before the coming into force of this regulation, paid that contribution; and

(c)will reach pensionable age on or after 6th April [F32016].

(3) The contributor may pay a Class 2 contribution under this regulation, in respect of any of the relevant contribution years, within the period specified in paragraph (4).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/1004/regulation/61B

Clearly states that if you were entitled to pay class 2 at the time you can pay at that rate now.

SwiftSuzie

Thanks again, molerat. You really are a mine of information. This certainly does seem to support and confirm the contention that you can still do this even if you have already retired. Otherwise, surely it couldn't say that it applies to those who retire after 6th April 2016 then go on to state that the payment can be made until 2023. This contradicts what my partner was told before receiving an official quote from them for Class 3 and paying it (thought it a great deal, which it still is, but now won't be very happy!!!). If I get through on Class 2, could my partner claim an official error, I wonder?

I think my only other question is can anyone point me to a link to the official guidance (or even law or statutory instrument) with which the closing date for this was extended to 31/07/23 ? I just want to see the official view on how I will stand if I send in the CF83 form now and it isn't dealt with by the deadline (which I know it won't be). Specifically, will I be able to jump ship (if necessary) from a Class 2 application to a Class 3 one in, say, December or early next year? Maybe I do what I was thinking of doing for the Class 3 contributions, and actually make the Class 2 bank transfer right now??

molerat

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2023/309/contents/made

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-insurance-contributions-extending-the-voluntary-national-insurance-contributions-deadline/extending-the-voluntary-national-insurance-contributions-deadline

At the top of the existing legislation there is a heading "changes to legislation" which contains all forthcoming changes.

There was a post some time back where the poster had raised a complaint about being advised they could not pay class 2 and had to pay class 3.  The outcome was the class 3 was refunded and class 2 paid.

HMRC were misinterpreting para 6 as a cut off date rather than simply a change of price.  They updated their internal manual in January.

SwiftSuzie

Thanks yet again, molerat. Do you have any thoughts on this bit?

I just want to see the official view on how I will stand if I send in the CF83 form now and it isn't dealt with by the deadline (which I know it won't be). Specifically, will I be able to jump ship (if necessary) from a Class 2 application to a Class 3 one in, say, December or early next year? Maybe I do what I was thinking of doing for the Class 3 contributions, and actually make the Class 2 bank transfer right now??

jem16

SwiftSuzie said:

Thanks yet again, molerat. Do you have any thoughts on this bit?

I just want to see the official view on how I will stand if I send in the CF83 form now and it isn't dealt with by the deadline (which I know it won't be). Specifically, will I be able to jump ship (if necessary) from a Class 2 application to a Class 3 one in, say, December or early next year? Maybe I do what I was thinking of doing for the Class 3 contributions, and actually make the Class 2 bank transfer right now??

You won't be able to pay Class 2 contributions until HMRC has confirmed you're eligible.

SwiftSuzie

Blimey. What a quandary. They don't believe in making life simple so they?

SwiftSuzie

The reason I thought to do that was I would at least have the lower class 2 amount standing against my account well before the deadline and if they forced me onto class 3 I could just top up the balance. Still don't see what's wrong with that to be fair.