The Welsh defence in Llangrannog

MX5huggy

Will he have any luck?

https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/20130346.driver-refuses-pay-english-only-llangrannog-parking-charge/?fbclid=IwAR2Ng8oRU7R0vW1edGaLlBaeXzwQTVD7spBr0b56ARF8nnUfRJYK9g1Hos8

KeithP

This was reported earlier today, albeit with a BBC News item...

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6357241/llangrannog-and-ops

Umkomaas

I expect Gavin P will be a regular visitor to Google Translate in regard to Llangrannog!

brian0311

Hi - I just tried paying one of their outrageous PCNs by cheque, with the amount in words written in Welsh. OPS returned the cheque, claiming "it wasn't filled out correctly", and then gave me an extra 7 days to pay the discounted charge.

It WAS filled out correctly, in Welsh. Moreover, the use of Welsh language on financial documents is protected in law by the European Charter for Regional for Minority Languages (CETS 148).

The UK is a signatory to this charter (& no it's not affected by Brexit...). The Welsh language is ratified under the general Part II principles as well as the more specific Part III commitments,  the latter including the following undertaking (ref 2a. Article 13):-

"With regard to economic and social activities, the Parties undertake, in so far as the public authorities are competent, within the territory in which the regional or minority languages are used, and as far as this is reasonably possible: a to include in their financial and banking regulations provisions which allow, by means of procedures compatible with commercial practice, the use of regional or minority languages in drawing up payment orders (cheques, drafts, etc.) or other financial documents, or, where appropriate, to ensure the implementation of such provisions”

So it appears, given the precedent, that if OPS reply saying they will not accept a cheque which is correctly written out in Welsh, there could be a good case to have the charge dismissed if they initiate court proceedings for non-payment. (I'm not a lawyer, so don't take this as legal advice)

Perhaps given the fact that it was also a 'charge' incurred in Wales (i.e the 'territory in which the regional language is used') may also help the case? . It may also possibly help if it can be demonstrated that it is not an attempt to somehow evade payment. In my case my bank issues me a bilingual cheque book, I have also written out cheques in Welsh before, which have been accepted by the payee.

Pob Lwc!

patient_dream

This is going to be a problem for OPS because Wales has only one currency and that is pound sterling
The box on a cheque shows the £ sign and the operating bank must understand the Welsh language 

If the bank fail to understand the Welsh language that is their problem but they won't ?

OPS has rejected a legal currency cheque which shows the ignorance of OPS, maybe they prefer to be be paid by a crypto currency ?

You paid, AND the foolish OPS says not
I'm sure a judge would see the ignorance of OPS

The bank you wrote the cheque on will be a FCA member

And when I drive into Wales from the M4, all the signs are in English and Welsh. this is accepted by the UK and the Welsh government ..... where do OPS get their cloud dreaming stuff from,they make it up as they go along ??

Had OPS presented the cheque, they would now have your money

WHAT FOOLS ..... they rejected a legal payment, how stupid is that ???

  

fisherjim

PPC's aren't the brightest that's why they scam money instead of doing something worthwhile in life

Coupon-mad

This is hilarious!

Can you show us redacted photos of the cheque (cover all ID/account number & name) and their letter?

brian0311

Coupon-mad said:

This is hilarious!

Can you show us redacted photos of the cheque (cover all ID/account number & name) and their letter?

I won't post the cheque, suffice to say it was a correctly filled out bilingual cheque as issued by my bank. OPS struck a line through the amount & returned it.  I would be very interested in knowing how people get on with using this method to try to pay their PCNs. Seeing as they extend the discounted period there appears little risk in doing so.

If they then return it with a similar cover letter, I think it is reasonable to respond stating your rights as protected under law (quoting CETS148 as above), and also that OPS t&c's clearly says they accept payment by cheque.

If OPS then try court action , or attempt to increase the charges beyond the discounted rate as a result, it seems to me quite likely that any case would be dismissed (although please don't take this as legal advice)

patient_dream

brian0311 said:

Coupon-mad said:

This is hilarious!

Can you show us redacted photos of the cheque (cover all ID/account number & name) and their letter?

I won't post the cheque, suffice to say it was a correctly filled out bilingual cheque as issued by my bank. OPS struck a line through the amount & returned it.  I would be very interested in knowing how people get on with using this method to try to pay their PCNs. Seeing as they extend the discounted period there appears little risk in doing so.

If they then return it with a similar cover letter, I think it is reasonable to respond stating your rights as protected under law (quoting CETS148 as above), and also that OPS t&c's clearly says they accept payment by cheque.

If OPS then try court action , or attempt to increase the charges beyond the discounted rate as a result, it seems to me quite likely that any case would be dismissed (although please don't take this as legal advice)

I think we have all had a giggle about the pure stupidity of OPS

It's not actually up to the receiving bank to query this, if the payee bank rejected it for the same reason (which they won't) then their bank would return it to OPS

Maybe the bank that OPS use is "The Bank of Mum and Dad"

Le_Kirk

What do they mean by "we have been advised by the bank that the courtesy amount must be written in English"?  Maybe OPS should learn English or Welsh or any language we can understand rather then OPSspeak!

Fruitcake

I suggest you complain to your MP and the Welsh First Minister about this discrimination.