Does a converted outbuilding need an EPC, planning permission etc?

lincroft1710

no_moolah said:

Thanks user1977, I think they may have been registered to vote at home but that's helpful to know.

Does anyone know how far council tax gets backdated? The LL has a second annexe, which sounds more like an extension to the main house but certainly self-contained. It's rented out yet isn't banded for council tax. That tenant has allegedly been there 10-15 years. Presumably when the VOA inspect the 'annexe' for banding, they'll also see the extension annexe and band that aswell. Will the LL get a CT bill for all of that period? A bit concerned about how they might react to it, assuming the bill would be fairly high.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/council-tax-manual/council-tax-practice-notes

Gives all the info  on assessing annexes for CT. Depending on how the annex is treated, if the disaggregation principles are applied then the band won't be backdated. But if the VOA believe the annex would have been a separate hereditament under the provisions of the General Rate Act 1967 then the band can be backdated to the date the annex came into being


The LL won't get the bill, the tenant will!!

no_moolah

Wow, ok, thanks all. I've checked the LA band prices and its close to £1000 for Band A, that's a huge amount when multipled by 10-15 years.

[Deleted User]

Hi no_moolah,

I am currently in a very similar situation to your friend. Fortunately, I haven't lived in the annexe for long but am aware that the LL is potentially acting unlawfully, and am making arrangements to hopefully leave. I am also concerned about backdated CT, should the Scottish Assessor deem the annexe as having its own council tax band.

However, I spoke to Shelter Scotland today and their response threw a bit of a spanner in the works. The implication was that I may be a lodger, as opposed to a tenant and on a 'common law tenancy'. This is because I live in a detached dwelling/ self-contained unit, but access to the unit is through the shared/ landlord's garden. In this case, the associate encouraged me to negotiate the CT with the LL.

Admittedly, I don't know how accurate this is so I am not taking it as gospel. Ultimately, it would be down to the council/ the assessor to determine the CT band, if it came to that. I'm guessing you may be in England so things may be different. Regardless, both your friend's LL and mine have clearly failed on many other counts.

lincroft1710

Deleted_User said:

Hi no_moolah,

I am currently in a very similar situation to your friend. Fortunately, I haven't lived in the annexe for long but am aware that the LL is potentially acting unlawfully, and am making arrangements to hopefully leave. I am also concerned about backdated CT, should the Scottish Assessor deem the annexe as having its own council tax band.

However, I spoke to Shelter Scotland today and their response threw a bit of a spanner in the works. The implication was that I may be a lodger, as opposed to a tenant and on a 'common law tenancy'. This is because I live in a detached dwelling/ self-contained unit, but access to the unit is through the shared/ landlord's garden. In this case, the associate encouraged me to negotiate the CT with the LL.

Admittedly, I don't know how accurate this is so I am not taking it as gospel. Ultimately, it would be down to the council/ the assessor to determine the CT band, if it came to that. I'm guessing you may be in England so things may be different. Regardless, both your friend's LL and mine have clearly failed on many other counts.

The law on renting in Scotland must be very different to that in England , otherwise Shelter Scotland's advice is misleading. There must be hundreds of thousands of flats in England which have a communal or shared access before you reach the front door and this doesn't prevent the creation of a tenancy.

no_moolah

Deleted_User said:

Hi no_moolah,

I am currently in a very similar situation to your friend. Fortunately, I haven't lived in the annexe for long but am aware that the LL is potentially acting unlawfully, and am making arrangements to hopefully leave. I am also concerned about backdated CT, should the Scottish Assessor deem the annexe as having its own council tax band.

However, I spoke to Shelter Scotland today and their response threw a bit of a spanner in the works. The implication was that I may be a lodger, as opposed to a tenant and on a 'common law tenancy'. This is because I live in a detached dwelling/ self-contained unit, but access to the unit is through the shared/ landlord's garden. In this case, the associate encouraged me to negotiate the CT with the LL.

Admittedly, I don't know how accurate this is so I am not taking it as gospel. Ultimately, it would be down to the council/ the assessor to determine the CT band, if it came to that. I'm guessing you may be in England so things may be different. Regardless, both your friend's LL and mine have clearly failed on many other counts.

Hi frugalista, that's very interesting... thanks for sharing. When I was doing research into the tenancy/lodger question, the shared access point came up but apparently that wouldn't be enough to stop it being a tenancy, as lincroft mentioned. With that said, I don't know if that would make a difference to whether an annexe needed its own CT band or not (unless the guidelines are  different in Scotland ).

no_moolah

Could someone please advise on the process for getting the deposit back? Tenant moved out 4-5 days ago but nothing from LL yet. I thought they would have been keen to return it promptly but apprently not. I wondered if they would sort it over the weekend. Would a formal letter be a good idea in any case?

[Deleted User]

lincroft1710 said:

Deleted_User said:

Hi no_moolah,

I am currently in a very similar situation to your friend. Fortunately, I haven't lived in the annexe for long but am aware that the LL is potentially acting unlawfully, and am making arrangements to hopefully leave. I am also concerned about backdated CT, should the Scottish Assessor deem the annexe as having its own council tax band.

However, I spoke to Shelter Scotland today and their response threw a bit of a spanner in the works. The implication was that I may be a lodger, as opposed to a tenant and on a 'common law tenancy'. This is because I live in a detached dwelling/ self-contained unit, but access to the unit is through the shared/ landlord's garden. In this case, the associate encouraged me to negotiate the CT with the LL.

Admittedly, I don't know how accurate this is so I am not taking it as gospel. Ultimately, it would be down to the council/ the assessor to determine the CT band, if it came to that. I'm guessing you may be in England so things may be different. Regardless, both your friend's LL and mine have clearly failed on many other counts.

The law on renting in Scotland must be very different to that in England , otherwise Shelter Scotland's advice is misleading. There must be hundreds of thousands of flats in England which have a communal or shared access before you reach the front door and this doesn't prevent the creation of a tenancy.

Sorry @lincroft1710 I just saw your response now. I tend to agree with you. I don't think the advice was accurate and potentially clutching at straws to find a way in which my LL's stance (that I am a lodger as opposed to a tenant) is justified. I think Shelter's response was due to the fact my place is accessed via a shared garden and gate at the address, and so my annexe doesn't have a separate address, as such. As you rightly say, this is the case for many properties. 

@no_moolah Has the deposit been placed in a deposit protection scheme, and has the tenant had any correspondence regarding when they can expect it back? 

no_moolah

Deleted_User said:

lincroft1710 said:

Deleted_User said:

Hi no_moolah,

I am currently in a very similar situation to your friend. Fortunately, I haven't lived in the annexe for long but am aware that the LL is potentially acting unlawfully, and am making arrangements to hopefully leave. I am also concerned about backdated CT, should the Scottish Assessor deem the annexe as having its own council tax band.

However, I spoke to Shelter Scotland today and their response threw a bit of a spanner in the works. The implication was that I may be a lodger, as opposed to a tenant and on a 'common law tenancy'. This is because I live in a detached dwelling/ self-contained unit, but access to the unit is through the shared/ landlord's garden. In this case, the associate encouraged me to negotiate the CT with the LL.

Admittedly, I don't know how accurate this is so I am not taking it as gospel. Ultimately, it would be down to the council/ the assessor to determine the CT band, if it came to that. I'm guessing you may be in England so things may be different. Regardless, both your friend's LL and mine have clearly failed on many other counts.

The law on renting in Scotland must be very different to that in England , otherwise Shelter Scotland's advice is misleading. There must be hundreds of thousands of flats in England which have a communal or shared access before you reach the front door and this doesn't prevent the creation of a tenancy.

@no_moolah Has the deposit been placed in a deposit protection scheme, and has the tenant had any correspondence regarding when they can expect it back? 

No deposit protection and no correspondence so far. I believe it should usually be within 10 days but I’m unsure if that remains the case for an unprotected deposit.  

[Deleted User]

Is there anything in the tenancy agreement regarding return of the deposit? If it isn't held in a TDS, which it should be, the landlord may not pay it back within the 10 day period, or at all. In which case, the tenant may be entitled to up to 3 times the deposit back, since the LL clearly hasn't followed the rules:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-privately/ending-your-tenancy/taking-your-landlord-to-court-if-they-havent-followed-the-deposit-rules/ 

no_moolah

Deleted_User said:

Is there anything in the tenancy agreement regarding return of the deposit? If it isn't held in a TDS, which it should be, the landlord may not pay it back within the 10 day period, or at all. In which case, the tenant may be entitled to up to 3 times the deposit back, since the LL clearly hasn't followed the rules:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-privately/ending-your-tenancy/taking-your-landlord-to-court-if-they-havent-followed-the-deposit-rules/ 

Thanks frugalista, that's helpful. I hoped it wouldn't come to that but it seems like that is the way it's heading... especially as the LL has been completely silent thus far.