Parcel left on doorstep-not there when i got home

diinozzo

Does Royal Mail have dispensation not to deliver to the person on the label/envelope as they deliver to addresses and not people?

NBLondon

RogerBareford said:

NBLondon said:

born_again said:

Would a courier even try the door?
Dangerous ground going into someone's property.

If the delivery instructions say "Leave in Porch" - then opening the door to access the porch is perfectly acceptable.  If the door is locked, then leave a card.

If no instructions, don't try the door.

Not long ago i saw a security camera video on social media which was posted by someone annoyed at a delivery driver for "walking into my house" where in the video it looked like a porch but lead directly into the house. The comments were quite critical of the delivery driver and some even accussed him of basically breaking into the house.

erm - if the door was open - he didn't break in did he? Any reasonable driver would shout "hello" and/or put the delivery on the doormat and leave again. Yes - there may be some entrances that look like a porch (protruding from the main wall) but don't have an inner door but those householders aren't going to give the instruction "leave in porch" are they? Cause that isn't a porch - it's a very small hallway.

DB1904

NBLondon said:

RogerBareford said:

NBLondon said:

born_again said:

Would a courier even try the door?
Dangerous ground going into someone's property.

If the delivery instructions say "Leave in Porch" - then opening the door to access the porch is perfectly acceptable.  If the door is locked, then leave a card.

If no instructions, don't try the door.

Not long ago i saw a security camera video on social media which was posted by someone annoyed at a delivery driver for "walking into my house" where in the video it looked like a porch but lead directly into the house. The comments were quite critical of the delivery driver and some even accussed him of basically breaking into the house.

erm - if the door was open - he didn't break in did he? Any reasonable driver would shout "hello" and/or put the delivery on the doormat and leave again. Yes - there may be some entrances that look like a porch (protruding from the main wall) but don't have an inner door but those householders aren't going to give the instruction "leave in porch" are they? Cause that isn't a porch - it's a very small hallway.

An open door isn't an invitation to enter and commit theft, you could still be charged with burglary. So in layman's terms basically you can understand the break in comments. 

ThumbRemote

born_again said:

ThumbRemote said:

It's quite clear that DPD haven't complied with the instructions given, and the retailer are trying to disclaim all responsibility. 

If you paid by card, maybe talk to the card issuer about a Section 75 claim or chargeback. Otherwise (and maybe after the wedding) commence small claims action against the retailer. There's not a chance of them winning, they probably won't even try to defend the claim. 

Wondered how long before that was mentioned.

It's destined to failure as there is proof of delivery. That is all that matters.

Why would a section 75 claim fail? My understanding is that section 75 means the credit provider has the same responsibilities as the retailer. If it hasn't been delivered, the card issuer can't just claim they don't have to follow the law. 

Manxman_in_exile

diinozzo said:

Does Royal Mail have dispensation not to deliver to the person on the label/envelope as they deliver to addresses and not people?

Not a problem for Royal Mail.  It's potentially a problem for any traders who use RM.

It has been discussed on here before.  I think the consensus was that if a consumer gives a delivery address of eg "Mrs Susan Smith, 6 Acacia Avenue, Toytown, TT2 4XY" then it has been delivered into her physical possession* after its been put through the letter box at 6 Acacia Avenue, Toytown, TT2 4XY.

Issues arrive if anything being delivered is too big to deliver through the letterbox and nobody is at home.  Then it can't be delivered into the addressee's physical possession...

* If you think about it, it's no more different really for RM than it is for any other provider of a delivery service.  If it can be delivered securely (eg via a letterbox) at the address supplied by the consumer - then everything is ok.  If that can't be done then it's the same problem for traders using RM as it is for DPD, DHL etc. 

RogerBareford

NBLondon said:

RogerBareford said:

NBLondon said:

born_again said:

Would a courier even try the door?
Dangerous ground going into someone's property.

If the delivery instructions say "Leave in Porch" - then opening the door to access the porch is perfectly acceptable.  If the door is locked, then leave a card.

If no instructions, don't try the door.

Not long ago i saw a security camera video on social media which was posted by someone annoyed at a delivery driver for "walking into my house" where in the video it looked like a porch but lead directly into the house. The comments were quite critical of the delivery driver and some even accussed him of basically breaking into the house.

erm - if the door was open - he didn't break in did he? Any reasonable driver would shout "hello" and/or put the delivery on the doormat and leave again. Yes - there may be some entrances that look like a porch (protruding from the main wall) but don't have an inner door but those householders aren't going to give the instruction "leave in porch" are they? Cause that isn't a porch - it's a very small hallway.

Ofcourse he didn't break in but that's what the comments accused him of.

In the video he walked up to the door and quickly opened it and within seconds realised his mistake and stepped outside and then the person in the house came out shouting at him while he handed over the parcel.

So any delivery driver who experienced that is probably hesistant to try doors they can't see through and i don't blame them.

NBLondon

DB1904 said:

An open door isn't an invitation to enter and commit theft, you could still be charged with burglary. So in layman's terms basically you can understand the break in comments. 

Nope.   But if the delivery instructions explicitly say "Leave in Porch" that's an invitation to enter the porch and complete the delivery.  

If there is no instruction then there is no invitation to try and open the door.

What's missing from Roger's anecdote is whether there was such an instruction.  If there wasn't - the driver was in the wrong.  If there was, the householder might be wrong.

prowla

born_again said:

ThumbRemote said:

It's quite clear that DPD haven't complied with the instructions given, and the retailer are trying to disclaim all responsibility. 

If you paid by card, maybe talk to the card issuer about a Section 75 claim or chargeback. Otherwise (and maybe after the wedding) commence small claims action against the retailer. There's not a chance of them winning, they probably won't even try to defend the claim. 

Wondered how long before that was mentioned.

It's destined to failure as there is proof of delivery. That is all that matters.

What's the proof of delivery?

I guess the question is: what constitutes delivery?

born_again

ThumbRemote said:

born_again said:

ThumbRemote said:

It's quite clear that DPD haven't complied with the instructions given, and the retailer are trying to disclaim all responsibility. 

If you paid by card, maybe talk to the card issuer about a Section 75 claim or chargeback. Otherwise (and maybe after the wedding) commence small claims action against the retailer. There's not a chance of them winning, they probably won't even try to defend the claim. 

Wondered how long before that was mentioned.

It's destined to failure as there is proof of delivery. That is all that matters.

Why would a section 75 claim fail? My understanding is that section 75 means the credit provider has the same responsibilities as the retailer. If it hasn't been delivered, the card issuer can't just claim they don't have to follow the law. 

The retailer can prove delivery & the customers choice of location & agreement on taking the risk. Thus they will argue no breach of contract. Just the same as retailer is.

@prowla Proof of delivery is the picture that the OP has posted from DPD. Under chargeback regulations all that is required is proof of delivery. It does not matter where, just that the item was delivered. Which it was. Remember these are over & above your legal consumer rights & set by the card companies.

Manxman_in_exile

born_again said:

ThumbRemote said:

born_again said:

ThumbRemote said:

It's quite clear that DPD haven't complied with the instructions given, and the retailer are trying to disclaim all responsibility. 

If you paid by card, maybe talk to the card issuer about a Section 75 claim or chargeback. Otherwise (and maybe after the wedding) commence small claims action against the retailer. There's not a chance of them winning, they probably won't even try to defend the claim. 

Wondered how long before that was mentioned.

It's destined to failure as there is proof of delivery. That is all that matters.

Why would a section 75 claim fail? My understanding is that section 75 means the credit provider has the same responsibilities as the retailer. If it hasn't been delivered, the card issuer can't just claim they don't have to follow the law. 

The retailer can prove delivery & the customers choice of location & agreement on taking the risk. Thus they will argue no breach of contract. Just the same as retailer is...

This is one of my problems with s29 of the CRA.

I know traders shouldn't be able to evade their responsibility under s29 to deliver only into the physical possession of either the consumer or their nominee, but at some point a trader is going to argue that all they've done is follow the alternative delivery instructions given by the consumer (eg a safe place).

I wouldn't give any instruction other than to deliver to a nominated neighbour.  (As explained above, I'm not sure how clear an instruction to "leave in porch" is).