Shell Energy Using Different Meter Reading Method?

Tarkus2

We were moved over to Shell Energy after Green went bust and like most people we are having problems. The main one seems to be the accepted way of reading our meter. We were told that Shell could not read our smart meter. Our meter is a Liberty 110 smart meter. When Green went out of business someone came round to read the meter and told me that if you press the 9 button until you get IMP KWH on the screen the following figure is the reading. This was 19310 and the reading was passed on to Shell. We have since supplied some readings using this method and Shell have generated two bills using these readings. Then we did not receive any bills for a couple of months. Now Shell say that the meter has been passing readings to them for a few months and the readings are completely different to ours. Theirs starts at 13407???. They have told us "Pressing button ‘9’ once on the meter's keypad will supply reading information. A single button press will show the total read for your use if you have a single rate tariff, displayed as ‘IMP kWh’, followed by the read itself in kWh. This will time out after about four seconds, and move to the next screen." If we only press button 9 once we get a message saying E01 followed by the reading that they are using. If we press again we get IMP KWH followed by the reading we were told to use by the meter reader. I have even taken a video and emailed it to Shell asking them to clarify that this is what happens and asking them to confirm that they are right in case there is any comeback in the future. Of course they are saying that we owe lots of money because of this spurious starting figure. Has anyone else had this problem?

nmr91

I am going through a very similar experience with Shell after being switched from Green.

They confirmed that my smart meter was working in January. Since then I have asked why my bills are using estimated readings, and only this week they have come back to me saying the later readings are wrong, and that they dispute the final reading given by Green. They have taken it upon themselves to recalculate by using some convoluted method of calculating an average usage over two days. The readings they have now given are really low like yours. I've tried taking a reading and posting it on the shell website using the method you describe it wont accept it as its above the expected threshold.

They now say I owe them £400. I have photos of each meter reading I have processed online and have emailed them to Shell but have had no reply. If they are saying that the final reading from Green, which I took and provided to Green, is too high then surely I have been overcharged by Green and am owed a credit. The whole thing is a complicated mess of their doing when we've just gone along in good faith believing everything is working perfectly. I've noticed there is a independent complaint company listed on the shell website - so think there's no choice but contacting them. 

MWT

It sounds like both of you may have the same basic problem...

At some point in the past your meter has been used for a dual rate tariff, either E7, or something like the British Gas 'free weekends' deal...

As a result the meter has recorded some of the use on a second register and the total import figure is the sum of those two registers.

You have been reading the total import figure and providing that to your supplier, but when they got it working as a smart meter again they are reading the first register, not the total import.

Odds are there has been a mistake in the past when moving between suppliers which may have resulted in a larger than expected bill but it could have been years ago.

What matters now is that if the total import reading was the one that matches the closing reading on your previous suppliers final bill then you need to get your current supplier to understand that somehow as what you owe the current supplier is the difference between the total import when you joined them and the same reading now...

If they are disputing the opening reading then as long as you get a credit for the lower figure then it all balances out and you'll need to use the lower reading moving forward...

nmr91

Thanks for your input - I don't ever recall having a dual rate tariff such a E7 or British Gas free weekends.  My final reading from Green / opening reading at Shell is 53720 as per their respective bills - recorded as Customer reading on Green bill but as Estimate on Shell. Shell confirmed Smart Meter was working in January.
Only this week, after I asked why their bills were using estimate readings, they have questioned Greens final reading and have said it should have been 45225. This seems a huge difference. With Green not recording the lower figure I have no understanding on whether I am due a credit or not or even how to go about questioning is?

Tarkus2

Thanks for the replies. There is some comfort in knowing we are not alone. Not much comfort to you! Does anyone know if the supplier has to send someone out to read your meter if you ask them to do so? During one of our many phone calls the customer service rep did suggest sending someone out and then backtracked on the idea. All the other times I have asked them to do so they have ignored the idea.

Tarkus2

With regard to how to read my meter I have just found this on the Citizens Advice website: 

To read the meter:

1. press 9
2. wait until you see the letters ‘IMP KWH’
3. you’ll then see numbers followed by ‘KWH’ - this is your reading
4. write down the numbers from left to right
5. ignore any zeroes at the beginning and any numbers after the decimal point

This is how I have been taking readings but Shell are telling me that it is wrong.

QrizB

Tarkus2 said:

With regard to how to read my meter I have just found this on the Citizens Advice website: 

To read the meter:

1. press 9
2. wait until you see the letters ‘IMP KWH’
3. you’ll then see numbers followed by ‘KWH’ - this is your reading
4. write down the numbers from left to right
5. ignore any zeroes at the beginning and any numbers after the decimal point

This is how I have been taking readings but Shell are telling me that it is wrong.

It is wrong because you've got a meter with two registers in use. The IMP KWH value is the sum of IMP R01 and IMP R02.

Watch this video. It shows you how to press "6" and read the individual registers R01 and R02.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFeQ_y5LRrM

nmr91

That's exactly how I read my meter - the shell energy website even explains how to read it in this manner - I always take a photo when I take a reading. I have emailed them to Shell as proof but not getting any replies. They have now put a new bill on my account but it wont download properly. I've reported this but as expected no reply.  My worry is my supposed debt is going to grow and grow whilst this mess is sorted, and as such it will just get even more complicated to sort out.

I found the following on another help site - about a readings dispute which I may throw at them - 

The gaining supplier is responsible for a transfer of supply. On a switch, the reading that you provided to the new supplier is industry-validated (ie; the validated reading may be different from the one that you provided), and it is then passed by a data flow to both suppliers to close and open your accounts. Ask Shell to confirm the industry-validated reading and the date of the data flow. Contact your old supplier with the information from Shell, and ask them to amend your closing account (final bill). Both suppliers are mandated to use the same reading to open and close accounts. 

If the industry-validated reading differs markedly from what your meter is showing then ask Shell to raise an Agreed Readings Dispute. 
 
For a ‘Read Dispute’ to be possible, there needs to be a big enough gap between the reading used and the reading you gave. This is called a ‘tolerance’. If the gap is too small, it’s known as being ‘within tolerance’. 
 
The tolerance for an electricity reading is 250 kWh or more.  For example if you submitted a reading of 01000 and the estimate used was 01300, there's a difference of 300 kWh and a reading dispute is possible.

The whole thing is a mess  

Tarkus2

Thanks for the video. Only two problems. 
1. When I press 9 the first display that I get is E01 followed by a number. I do not get IMP KWH on the first press. 
2. We are on a single tariff (not economy seven). Are Shell correct in taking the reading that follows E01?
I have heard good things about Octopus Energy. I can't wait to switch to them!

QrizB

Tarkus2 said:

Thanks for the video. Only two problems. 
1. When I press 9 the first display that I get is E01 followed by a number. I do not get IMP KWH on the first press. 
2. We are on a single tariff (not economy seven). Are Shell correct in taking the reading that follows E01?
I have heard good things about Octopus Energy. I can't wait to switch to them!

You may be on a single tariff today, but at some stage since installation your meter has been used on a dual-rate tariff. That's why there's an R02 reading and why the total meter reading IMP KWH is made up from the sum of R01 plus R02.

Does pressing "6" give you R01 and R02? Or do you have completely different firmware from the meter in the video?

In practice, if you're on a single-rate tariff it doesn't matter whether Shell bill you on the IMP KWH total or on the register that's in use. What does matter is that Shell use the same readings consistently on your account.

[Deleted User]

The points above are well made. Each smart meter has 4 registers each with 48 daily 30 minute usage slots. Sadly, the IHD only shows a total index reading which is why many people get into difficulties if, as described, the account has been changed from R1 and R2 to just R1. It gets even more complicated if you have a supplier that ignores meter readings and uses 30 minute data for billing. 

In sum, the above posters need to access all the readings to see what has been recorded in the past.