Finding out age of house

Michela

Doozergirl said:

Hip to gable using SIPs could be an idea.  It might enable you to use the entire roof space without building upwards. 

Ours is built like that.  The new 'bungalow' next door is much smaller than ours in usable volume but is much taller because of the sheer wasted space in traditional construction.  

We have every square centimetre of space from eaves to eaves with no internal structural walls.  I love it!

I think this is the more likely route we will take. I guess I got quite excited with the prospect of turning it into a house but the neighbours might not be overjoyed. Also regardless of it being under permitted development the planning Office can still refuse it if they feel its not fitting.

But I'm still open to the extra floor but don't want to waste time and money on a plan that gets refused. It would more than a few tweaks to change it.

I guess I can call the planning office to get their thoughts, as in if its a big no no 

How many bedrooms did you manage to get upstairs with your hip to gable?

We are detached and it's quite a large footprint. 

theoretica

Have you tried the NLS map website?  It may be where you found the ordnance survey - but is my map starting point and may have other maps to try.

Also - if the map says the road didn't exist, but the directory says it did - is it definitely not a different road byt he same name?

FaceHead

There is the 1921 Census, which has just been published. If there's any chance the house is as old at that, you might consider looking for it in there. 

There are also historical copies of the electoral register - some are digitised and some are available to be public in paper form. You could probably get hold of a copy of the electoral roll from the 1935 general election. The rolls from the 1945 general election are less reliable/available, but again you could see what you can get hold of. 

Section62

Michela said:

I have been advised that we can build up on our house if built after 1945.

What did they say the relevance of 1945 is?

1948 is the date used for working out certain aspects of permitted development - it is the basis of what the 'original house' was if it was built before then.

But I can't see an obvious reason why it would make a difference to whether or not you can do your project.

Is it something like the architect making assumptions about the foundations or structure depending on when it was built?

Michela

theoretica said:

Have you tried the NLS map website?  It may be where you found the ordnance survey - but is my map starting point and may have other maps to try.

Also - if the map says the road didn't exist, but the directory says it did - is it definitely not a different road byt he same name?

I did try and look at other maps but there wasn't much to see covering my area.

FaceHead said:

There is the 1921 Census, which has just been published. If there's any chance the house is as old at that, you might consider looking for it in there. 

There are also historical copies of the electoral register - some are digitised and some are available to be public in paper form. You could probably get hold of a copy of the electoral roll from the 1935 general election. The rolls from the 1945 general election are less reliable/available, but again you could see what you can get hold of. 

Thanks. I guess my issue is that the homes that were here prior to the 1950's were given names and not numbers. I don't know how I would match up a house name with my number.

Section62 said:

Michela said:

I have been advised that we can build up on our house if built after 1945.

What did they say the relevance of 1945 is?

1948 is the date used for working out certain aspects of permitted development - it is the basis of what the 'original house' was if it was built before then.

But I can't see an obvious reason why it would make a difference to whether or not you can do your project.

Is it something like the architect making assumptions about the foundations or structure depending on when it was built?

Sorry I think it's 1948 not 45, but its the permitted development ability to extend upwards on a house built after 1948.

I guess they are thinking it makes things easier if it's pd.

Doozergirl

Section62 said:

Michela said:

I have been advised that we can build up on our house if built after 1945.

What did they say the relevance of 1945 is?

1948 is the date used for working out certain aspects of permitted development - it is the basis of what the 'original house' was if it was built before then.

But I can't see an obvious reason why it would make a difference to whether or not you can do your project.

Is it something like the architect making assumptions about the foundations or structure depending on when it was built?

The new (and utterly ridiculous in many cases) ability to build additional storeys under PD.  

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/additional-storeys-extending-upwards/planning-permission

TELLIT01

Doozergirl said:

Have you downloaded Google Earth?  It has historical aerial photos.  

I have to say I'd be surprised that Ordnance Survey hadn't picked up houses several years after you think they were built.  

What kind of house do you have? The additional storey rule that you're talking about relates to permitted development,  but is it possible that you'd get regular planning permission? 

Goggle Earth may or may not be helpful.  For where I live the images are very fuzzy, and although I know our house was built in 1938 and the map claims to be 1945, I can't really tell whether the houses are on the map or not.  The situation isn't helped by modern roads being shown as an overlay, irrespective of what date the map is.  That makes it almost impossible to know if a road existed at that date, never mind a single property on that road.

Section62

Doozergirl said:

Section62 said:

Michela said:

I have been advised that we can build up on our house if built after 1945.

What did they say the relevance of 1945 is?

1948 is the date used for working out certain aspects of permitted development - it is the basis of what the 'original house' was if it was built before then.

But I can't see an obvious reason why it would make a difference to whether or not you can do your project.

Is it something like the architect making assumptions about the foundations or structure depending on when it was built?

The new (and utterly ridiculous in many cases) ability to build additional storeys under PD.  

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/additional-storeys-extending-upwards/planning-permission

Thanks, I was a bit thrown by 1945 and the idea it was a yes/no to whether the project could be done at all.

I think it might be a case of an architect taking the 'what can we get away with' type approach rather than designing what the OP needs/wants and then sorting out the planning side.

OP, the easiest thing to do is to ask the planners - if you get queries about the 'lack of planning consent' when you come to sell you may have to go through the process of trying to prove to a sceptical buyer when the house was built.  Get confirmation (in writing) from the planners and you'll have nothing to worry about.

olbas_oil

Michela said:

Slinky said:

Is it possible to work out if the names relate to other properties in the road? It might be bad news, but if it turns out the 2 on either side of you were those named properties it might swing things your way?

I'm not how I would match them up as it says the name of the owner and the house name in 1933. But I'm not sure how to match them with exisitng numbers. It doesnt show any map it's just a small list of house names and owners. 

I also looked at the 1935 OS map and that says the road doesn't even exist. But it did according the 1933 register.

It may be worth looking at old phone books: British Phone Books, 1880-1984 | Ancestry®
If you can match a name of the owner, at some later date when the houses have been numbered, they may still be living there?

Michela

olbas_oil said:

Michela said:

Slinky said:

Is it possible to work out if the names relate to other properties in the road? It might be bad news, but if it turns out the 2 on either side of you were those named properties it might swing things your way?

I'm not how I would match them up as it says the name of the owner and the house name in 1933. But I'm not sure how to match them with exisitng numbers. It doesnt show any map it's just a small list of house names and owners. 

I also looked at the 1935 OS map and that says the road doesn't even exist. But it did according the 1933 register.

It may be worth looking at old phone books: British Phone Books, 1880-1984 | Ancestry®
If you can match a name of the owner, at some later date when the houses have been numbered, they may still be living there?

olbas_oil said:

Michela said:

Slinky said:

Is it possible to work out if the names relate to other properties in the road? It might be bad news, but if it turns out the 2 on either side of you were those named properties it might swing things your way?

I'm not how I would match them up as it says the name of the owner and the house name in 1933. But I'm not sure how to match them with exisitng numbers. It doesnt show any map it's just a small list of house names and owners. 

I also looked at the 1935 OS map and that says the road doesn't even exist. But it did according the 1933 register.

It may be worth looking at old phone books: British Phone Books, 1880-1984 | Ancestry®
If you can match a name of the owner, at some later date when the houses have been numbered, they may still be living there?

You are a genius, thank you. I took a guess and first time found the name from 1972 which matched with my house name in the 1939 register.

I also get to know what was house was originally called, so an added bonus.

So it was there in the 30's as I suspected. 

Doozergirl said:

Section62 said:

Michela said:

I have been advised that we can build up on our house if built after 1945.

What did they say the relevance of 1945 is?

1948 is the date used for working out certain aspects of permitted development - it is the basis of what the 'original house' was if it was built before then.

But I can't see an obvious reason why it would make a difference to whether or not you can do your project.

Is it something like the architect making assumptions about the foundations or structure depending on when it was built?

The new (and utterly ridiculous in many cases) ability to build additional storeys under PD.  

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/additional-storeys-extending-upwards/planning-permission

Why are you 'allowed' to do it if your house was built after 1948?

The houses opposite me were built after that date so can do it under PD but I can't.

I'm not overly bothered, just wondered what the thinking is.