defence against UKPC

Fruitcake

The advice below on how to find landowners is posted regularly and frequently by @Umkomaas

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for £3 they will provide definitive detail

Corona_EXTA

KeithP said:

Corona_EXTA said:

 KeithP said:

Corona_EXTA said:

KeithP said:

Corona_EXTA said:

yes but point 3 says "in your own words" describe what happened/ went wrong. that's what i need help with. cheers

Well how about writing your paragraph 3 in your own words describing what happened and then asking here if anyone would be kind enough to review your proposal?

...in the mean time is it worth complaining to the land owner?

Yes of course. What have you got to lose?

so this is what i have come up with so far. what do you think?

The defendant was visiting the retail park to do some shopping and parked their car in the car park, there are only a few small signs in the car park and are not visible at all from some areas of the car park. The defendant was not aware of the T&C's of the car park due to the poor signage. The defendant noticed that their car key had broken and had to walk home to locate their spare key and then walk back to their car to collect it. The defendant could not comply to the T&C's of the car park as their key had unexpectedly broken which was out of their control.

Is that part of your Defence or your complaint to the landowner?

this is for defence

Corona_EXTA

Fruitcake said:

If you intend to include the point about the broken key in your defence paragraph 3, you need to mention that this caused a frustration of contract, as already mentioned previously on this thread.

Personally I think you would be better defending this as an identified driver, so your para 2 should refer to keeper and driver, but liability is denied.

I suggest you supplement your para 3 with reference to the Jopson vs Homeguard case where the judge stated that attending to a vicissitude of small duration such as dealing with a flat tyre is not parking. 
The case number was B9GF0A9E, although sometimes the references will have the leading letter B omitted, and the transcript is available online.
I would suggest that a broken car key constituted a vicissitude of short duration and therefore did not constitute a parking event.
Note that this case was heard in the appeal court and is therefore persuasive on the lower courts.

Ok so in that case should I refer to myself as defendant still or change it to I? 

is there anything you think I need to take out/ change or shall i just add in what you have suggested.
cheers. 

Le_Kirk

Corona_EXTA said:

KeithP said:

Is that part of your Defence or your complaint to the landowner?

this is for defence

Then you need to add it into the template defence in the same format and style as the template.  Show us then ONLY your  paragraphs 2, 3 and any others that you modify.

Fruitcake

The defence should to be written in the third person. 

I suggested you identify yourself as driver as I think it will help because you can then honestly state first hand your experience about the broken key and fetching a replacement. 

Corona_EXTA

Fruitcake said:

The defence should to be written in the third person. 

I suggested you identify yourself as driver as I think it will help because you can then honestly state first hand your experience about the broken key and fetching a replacement. 

Hello mate defence is due tomorrow at 4pm so I know I'm short of time but had a death in the family. I don't even want to be dealing with this at the moment but it needs to be done. this is what I have so far. will this suffice? cheers.

The facts as known to the Defendant: 

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question but liability is denied.  

 
 

3. The defendant was visiting the retail park to do some shopping and parked their car in the car park, there are only a few small signs in the car park and are not visible at all from some areas of the car park. The defendant was not aware of the T&C's of the car park due to the poor signage. The defendant noticed that their car key had broken and had to walk home to locate their spare key and then walk back to their car to collect it. The defendant could not comply to the T&C's of the car park as their key had unexpectedly broken which was out of their control, this caused a frustration of contract. Please refer to Jopson vs Homeguard (9GF0A9E) where the judge stated that attending to a vicissitude of small duration such as dealing with a flat tyre is not parking and hence the defendant suggests that a broken car key constituted a vicissitude of short duration and therefore did not constitute a parking event. “The concept of parking, as opposed to stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture.”. This case was heard in the appeal court. 

Corona_EXTA

Le_Kirk said:

Corona_EXTA said:

KeithP said:

Is that part of your Defence or your complaint to the landowner?

this is for defence

Then you need to add it into the template defence in the same format and style as the template.  Show us then ONLY your  paragraphs 2, 3 and any others that you modify.

Hello mate defence is due tomorrow at 4pm so I know I'm short of time but had a death in the family. I don't even want to be dealing with this at the moment but it needs to be done. this is what I have so far. will this suffice? cheers.

The facts as known to the Defendant: 

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question but liability is denied.  

 
 

3. The defendant was visiting the retail park to do some shopping and parked their car in the car park, there are only a few small signs in the car park and are not visible at all from some areas of the car park. The defendant was not aware of the T&C's of the car park due to the poor signage. The defendant noticed that their car key had broken and had to walk home to locate their spare key and then walk back to their car to collect it. The defendant could not comply to the T&C's of the car park as their key had unexpectedly broken which was out of their control, this caused a frustration of contract. Please refer to Jopson vs Homeguard (9GF0A9E) where the judge stated that attending to a vicissitude of small duration such as dealing with a flat tyre is not parking and hence the defendant suggests that a broken car key constituted a vicissitude of short duration and therefore did not constitute a parking event. “The concept of parking, as opposed to stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture.”. This case was heard in the appeal court. 

Coupon-mad

Looks OK to me.

Next time anything delays you, ask shops to exempt your car on the white list. They can.

Corona_EXTA

Coupon-mad said:

Looks OK to me.

Next time anything delays you, ask shops to exempt your car on the white list. They can.

ok thank you, so just to confirm what to do from here, I send my defence to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk with my case number as the subject? anything else at this stage? cheers

Fruitcake

The email address to use is in the first post of the template defence thread you have been following it, but it looks to be the correct one to me. 

I suggest you also send a copy to the claimant so they can't later say they never received it. 
Send a copy to yourself as well. That way if you and the court receive it okay, then on the balance of probabilities the claimant received it as well.