UC by 2024

andrewmp

OhWow said:

andrewmp said:

NedS said:

andrewmp said:

NedS said:

andrewmp said:

calcotti said:

andrewmp said:

calcotti said:

andrewmp said: 

Firstly, managed migration begins this month, so it stands to reason that some students will be impacted.  

Not necessarily. DWP are the ones sending out the invitations so they could exclude any student Tax Credit claimants for the time being.

Have they indicated any intention to do that?

No, but I was simply speculating that it might be possible.
Frankly, at the moment there is almost no information about how they are going to approach it other than starting next week and that’s they are going to learn as they go.

You would hope they have considered this possibility, before selecting the lucky 500.

Have you raised the issue with anyone? If so, what was the response?

How can you raise potential issues when they don't impact you?

You can write to your MP or the Secretary of State and ask for clarification on the issue. You could request numbers of people who may be impacted by the change under a freedom of information request, both of which would highlight the issue to the relevant authorities should they not already be aware.

Sadly once a student is selected, they are potential £1k per month worse off - which means transitional protection won't fulfill its stated purpose of ensuing people won't lose out at the point of the move to UC 

Students are allowed to work. I worked when I did my degree and I was a single mother.

That learned time management helps when you get the job of your dreams. It's also a massive plus to put on your cv!

 

Irrelevant to the discussion, but yes - many students work.

This change will impact students who work too.

OhWow

andrewmp said:

kaMelo said:

A new claim for tax credits has not been possible for some time, by the end of 2024 I would imagine all students who had an existing tax credits claim will have long since graduated so not really an issue.

Firstly, managed migration begins this month, so it stands to reason that some students will be impacted.  Secondly, someone may have qualified for tax credits many years ago and begin a university degree this September. 

Under the welfare reforms, two bites of the same cherry has ended.

Isn't  one of the differences between Tax Credits and Universal Credit, that UC has increasing work requirements, depending on the age of the youngest child or disabilities?

How many of these new students would still be on Tax Credit for many years because they/their partner/ didn't work/work a full working week of at least 35 hours?

How long would their transitinal protection last anyway. I thought I read on here that any transitional protection is lost after 3(?) months if they don't meet their work requirements?

Does being a student mean they can avoid the UC work requirments? A few years ago, some claimants became  "self employed" when they were required to work a few hours as their youngest had now reached a certain age. What's the point of shutting the SE loophole for claimants if they then allow another loophole?? Are you sure this was an error in the welfare reforms, to miss off these new students this year who have been on Tax Credit for many years, from transitional protection?

calcotti

OhWow said:
How long would their transitinal protection last anyway. I thought I read on here that any transitional protection is lost after 3(?) months if they don't meet their work requirements? 

Never seen that said anywhere.

andrewmp

OhWow said:

andrewmp said:

kaMelo said:

A new claim for tax credits has not been possible for some time, by the end of 2024 I would imagine all students who had an existing tax credits claim will have long since graduated so not really an issue.

Firstly, managed migration begins this month, so it stands to reason that some students will be impacted.  Secondly, someone may have qualified for tax credits many years ago and begin a university degree this September. 

Does being a student mean they can avoid the UC work requirments?

Yes.  As long as the student otherwise qualifies for UC and they are a full time student, then they have no work requirements under UC.

Yhe government's stated aim is to ensure that nobody is worse off on UC (when compared to legacy benefits) at the time of transfer, then transitional protection is not fit for purpose for students.

In some cases they will be maybe £14,000 per year worse off after the move to UC.  You might argue that this is good thing as they shouldn't get that amount in UC and still get student loams, but that isn't the stated aim of transitional protection.

kaMelo

The stated aim of managed migration is that at the point of migration to UC people are not in a worse position than they were on legacy benefits. My interpretation, and I'm happy to be corrected on this, is that the stated aim of not being worse off at the point of migration assumes people qualify for both tax credits and UC. I am not sure what happens at the point of migration to people who qualify for tax credits but don't qualify for UC, for example those with large amounts of savings or students eligible for maintenance loans.

What information are you reading that makes you so sure transitional protection will not apply to those people such as students, does the same apply to those with large savings as well?

Spoonie_Turtle

kaMelo said:

The stated aim of managed migration is that at the point of migration to UC people are not in a worse position than they were on legacy benefits. My interpretation, and I'm happy to be corrected on this, is that the stated aim of not being worse off at the point of migration assumes people qualify for both tax credits and UC. I am not sure what happens at the point of migration to people who qualify for tax credits but don't qualify for UC, for example those with large amounts of savings or students eligible for maintenance loans.

What information are you reading that makes you so sure transitional protection will not apply to those people such as students, does the same apply to those with large savings as well?

I don't have a source to have but I've read several times that there will be a disregard for 12 months of any savings over the £16,000 threshold at least.  (I don't know if savings between £6,000-16,000 will also be disregarded, although if it's to make sure people aren't worse off it would be logical that there should be no deduction either for those 12 months.

I also don't know if that applies to people owning an additional property which takes their capital over the threshold.

calcotti

Spoonie_Turtle said: I don't have a source to have but I've read several times that there will be a disregard for 12 months of any savings over the £16,000 threshold at least.  (I don't know if savings between £6,000-16,000 will also be disregarded, although if it's to make sure people aren't worse off it would be logical that there should be no deduction either for those 12 months.

Regulation 51 of the UC (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2014 refers only to a disregard, for those previously on Tax Credits, of any capital in excess of £16,000. This means that there will be a tariff deduction based on £16,000 of capital.

Note too that if capital drops below £16,000 the disregard is lost. This means that of you have £17,000 you are allowed to claim and £1,000 is ignored. If capital then drops to £15,000 the disregard is lost. If capital then goes back up to £16001 entitlement to UC ends.

The disregard cannot exceed 12 months.

(The 2014 date of these regulations is another reminder of how late this process is!)

sourpuss2021

Here's a BBC article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61339069

OhWow

calcotti said:

OhWow said:
How long would their transitinal protection last anyway. I thought I read on here that any transitional protection is lost after 3(?) months if they don't meet their work requirements? 

Never seen that said anywhere.

This board can be the only place that I read it, albeit a long time ago.

This i just found using a search engine-

Significant change of circumstance

If you have a significant change of circumstance which affects your Universal Credit claim, you will lose your transitional protection amount immediately.

These significant changes are:

• You are claiming Universal Credit as a couple, but then split up or your partner dies
• You are claiming as a single person but then move in with a partner or a partner moves in with you
• Your earnings drop beneath the level expected of you in your claimant commitment (for three months in a row), and at the time you claimed Universal Credit your earnings were above this level. Working this out can be complicated because the amount people are expected to earn is affected by changes in minimum wage rates. If you are affected by this rule speak to an adviser.
• Your Universal Credit award ends (other than because of your earnings increasing). Examples of this might be if you moved abroad or if you got capital of more than £16,000.

...

Updated: January 2022

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit-transitional-protection/How-long-will-I-get-Universal-Credit-transitional#guide-content

calcotti

OhWow said: Your earnings drop beneath the level expected of you in your claimant commitment (for three months in a row), and at the time you claimed Universal Credit your earnings were above this level. 

I assume that is what you are referring to (which i admit I had forgotten). However it's a very specific set of circumstances (and very unfair in my opinion) which should only affect a small number of claimants. It does not mean that for all claimants any transitional protection is lost after 3(?) months if a claimant doesn't meet their work requirements?

I don't understand what the thinking behind this provision is. Perversely it incentivises people to reduce their working hours prior to claiming UC so that they don't fall within the group that could be affected.