UC by 2024

NedS

I know the status of students has previously been discussed in this thread, so just updating ('I've not read back through the whole thread so this may have already have been stated)

Students on managed migration have an exception and will be entitled to claim UC as part of a managed migration. They will be eligible to claim UC until their course ends so this exception is not time limited to a 12 month period etc.

To be eligible, they must have started their course at least 1 day before making their application for UC and that application must be a managed migration. The exception only applies to being eligible to claim UC where they may not have otherwise been eligible.

Their student income will be taken into account as per the regular guidance. Because of the way Transitional Protection (TP) works, students will potentially be worse off as the student income deduction would occur after any TP element has been calculated.

andrewmp

Yes, students will lose out massively.

I've been banging this drum for a while, but kept being told I was wrong.  I know someone who will lose over £1k a month when she is migrated.

NedS

andrewmp said:

Yes, students will lose out massively.

I've been banging this drum for a while, but kept being told I was wrong.  I know someone who will lose over £1k a month when she is migrated.

Yes, the government view it as plugging a loophole that should never have existed in the first place. Students are expected to support themselves through the loans, grants and bursaries that are otherwise available to them, not to be supported by the tax payer through the benefits system.

Unlikely to lose over £1k per month though, as there will be TP protection on the overall entitlement, and deductions for student income after disregards are unlikely to exceed £1k per month unless the maintenance grant is huge?

kaMelo

The only two ways for it to exceed £1000 per month are to be living away from home in London or living away from home outside London and in receipt of a long course loan top up.

Not to dismiss the impact it may have but to put a positive spin on things, students in receipt of tax credits should take heart that they have been in a privileged position compared to students who didn't qualify for benefits.

andrewmp

NedS said:

andrewmp said:

Yes, students will lose out massively.

I've been banging this drum for a while, but kept being told I was wrong.  I know someone who will lose over £1k a month when she is migrated.

Yes, the government view it as plugging a loophole that should never have existed in the first place. Students are expected to support themselves through the loans, grants and bursaries that are otherwise available to them, not to be supported by the tax payer through the benefits system.

Unlikely to lose over £1k per month though, as there will be TP protection on the overall entitlement, and deductions for student income after disregards are unlikely to exceed £1k per month unless the maintenance grant is huge?

From my calculations she will be worse off and lose all TC.

Her student income is currently disregarded and it's circa £15k per annum.  That'll be unearned income and reduce the UC 1:1, barring a small allowed deduction.

Maybe it's a policy decision that she'll be worse off, but her and many others will be, rendering the transitional protection useless for students.

andrewmp

kaMelo said:

The only two ways for it to exceed £1000 per month are to be living away from home in London or living away from home outside London and in receipt of a long course loan top up.

Not to dismiss the impact it may have but to put a positive spin on things, students in receipt of tax credits should take heart that they have been in a privileged position compared to students who didn't qualify for benefits.

She's in her final year (I think) and living in Manchester. She said she gets about £15k.

Her boyfriend works full time at McDonalds.

There are many ways you can exceed £1k per month in student maintenance payments.  Having a child is one which will be pretty much everyone claiming tax credits as a student I would imagine.

andrewmp

Even if we accept that it's right that her family should be worse off, because they were lucky compared to those already on tax credits; isn't that the whole point of transitional protection to ensure that claimants will not be financially worse off at the point they are moved?

That's certainly been the stated aim every time transitional protection is mentioned.

NedS

andrewmp said:

NedS said:

andrewmp said:

Yes, students will lose out massively.

I've been banging this drum for a while, but kept being told I was wrong.  I know someone who will lose over £1k a month when she is migrated.

Yes, the government view it as plugging a loophole that should never have existed in the first place. Students are expected to support themselves through the loans, grants and bursaries that are otherwise available to them, not to be supported by the tax payer through the benefits system.

Unlikely to lose over £1k per month though, as there will be TP protection on the overall entitlement, and deductions for student income after disregards are unlikely to exceed £1k per month unless the maintenance grant is huge?

From my calculations she will be worse off and lose all TC.

Her student income is currently disregarded and it's circa £15k per annum.  That'll be unearned income and reduce the UC 1:1, barring a small allowed deduction.

It's not as simple as that. Some of the £15k may be initially disregarded depending what it has been awarded for, and from whom. Typically, only grants and loans for maintenance of the claimant are included and some not fully. Then we must consider if they are included over the full year, or only over APs falling within term time and excluding the long summer vacation, so deductions may be split over 9 or 10 months with full UC payable in the remainder. Then there is the £110 monthly disregard to consider.

I have no doubt they will be worse off, but the by how much will be in the fine details and will depend on many other factors.

andrewmp

NedS said:

andrewmp said:

NedS said:

andrewmp said:

Yes, students will lose out massively.

I've been banging this drum for a while, but kept being told I was wrong.  I know someone who will lose over £1k a month when she is migrated.

Yes, the government view it as plugging a loophole that should never have existed in the first place. Students are expected to support themselves through the loans, grants and bursaries that are otherwise available to them, not to be supported by the tax payer through the benefits system.

Unlikely to lose over £1k per month though, as there will be TP protection on the overall entitlement, and deductions for student income after disregards are unlikely to exceed £1k per month unless the maintenance grant is huge?

From my calculations she will be worse off and lose all TC.

Her student income is currently disregarded and it's circa £15k per annum.  That'll be unearned income and reduce the UC 1:1, barring a small allowed deduction.

It's not as simple as that. Some of the £15k may be initially disregarded depending what it has been awarded for, and from whom. Typically, only grants and loans for maintenance of the claimant are included and some not fully. Then we must consider if they are included over the full year, or only over APs falling within term time and excluding the long summer vacation, so deductions may be split over 9 or 10 months with full UC payable in the remainder. Then there is the £110 monthly disregard to consider.

I have no doubt they will be worse off, but the by how much will be in the fine details and will depend on many other factors.

£15k is £1.5k per month over the 10 month period.

Remove the £110pm disregard and you're still looking at £1390 per month unearned income.  Even if they deduct the PLA grant of around £160pm (they might) it still sounds like a total loss of benefit to me.  Where am I going wrong?  She'll be delighted if I'm wrong.

They both work really hard and she's trying to better herself, it'll be such a shame if they lose out. I think she's hoping to work a soon as she graduates, so probably won't recoup her losses then.

NedS

andrewmp said:

NedS said:

andrewmp said:

NedS said:

andrewmp said:

Yes, students will lose out massively.

I've been banging this drum for a while, but kept being told I was wrong.  I know someone who will lose over £1k a month when she is migrated.

Yes, the government view it as plugging a loophole that should never have existed in the first place. Students are expected to support themselves through the loans, grants and bursaries that are otherwise available to them, not to be supported by the tax payer through the benefits system.

Unlikely to lose over £1k per month though, as there will be TP protection on the overall entitlement, and deductions for student income after disregards are unlikely to exceed £1k per month unless the maintenance grant is huge?

From my calculations she will be worse off and lose all TC.

Her student income is currently disregarded and it's circa £15k per annum.  That'll be unearned income and reduce the UC 1:1, barring a small allowed deduction.

It's not as simple as that. Some of the £15k may be initially disregarded depending what it has been awarded for, and from whom. Typically, only grants and loans for maintenance of the claimant are included and some not fully. Then we must consider if they are included over the full year, or only over APs falling within term time and excluding the long summer vacation, so deductions may be split over 9 or 10 months with full UC payable in the remainder. Then there is the £110 monthly disregard to consider.

I have no doubt they will be worse off, but the by how much will be in the fine details and will depend on many other factors.

£15k is £1.5k per month over the 10 month period.

Remove the £110pm disregard and you're still looking at £1390 per month unearned income.  Even if they deduct the PLA grant of around £160pm (they might) it still sounds like a total loss of benefit to me.  Where am I going wrong?  She'll be delighted if I'm wrong.

Can you give the make up of that £15k grant? Specifically, what is it for and what/how much are the individual components of it? How much is for maintenance, how much for course fees, how much for books, travel and other ancillaries, any elements to support others than the claimant (children maybe?). If it's a University course and £9k is for course fees, that will be fully disregarded straight away. If not, how are they funding the course fees?