Stone falling into chimney near boundary - who is responsible and who is at danger?

joe90mitch

Again thanks so much both for all the input.

Section62 - sadly I have paid already. When they raised the chimney it was discussed as extra work and I said I would need some time to discuss with the neighbour etc. At that time I had no idea corners had been cut etc etc and it seemed like this was an additional extra. So I paid in full as the gutters and Ridge tiles look good (from my ground level view).

Nonetheless, I'll weigh all this up, maybe at the very least going back to them flagging the scaffold issues and asking for a lower price to just sort those 2 stones out.

stuart45

Unless the pointing is done properly it's not worth doing. It has to be raked properly, joints cleaned and wetted, and joints properly filled with correct mortar mix.
You can see on your stack the newer pointing was not deep enough, and.is starting to drop away.  You need some one you can trust with the knowledge.
Problem with stacks is that they are so high up you can't see what's going on.

joe90mitch

Getting nowhere with this, frustrating.

Emailed him asking for him to call me to discuss the work as I had a few questions, just got a reply saying "Hi, what are the questions". Would rather have discussed over the phone but emailed him back saying (in summary) that the neighbour can't contribute and we've had a few tradespeople (including my partner's grandad, who is a retired builder) say just re-fixing the 2 stones would be sufficient and as a result could he give a price for that. Also flagged that we've had people say the scaffold needs standards to the ground and rakers. Asked him if he was aware and if we could correct that.

His reply started with "Hi, I'm happy with the scaffold as is", then went on to say in his opinion just fixing the 2 stones would be a bodge and he wouldn't want to do it. I don't even think I've mentioned this, but this guy runs a guttering company but has a roofer he uses (the one we spoke to about it when the chimney was flagged originally, but all comms since have been from the boss). Said he would happily bring the price down to £450 and let us not pay until end of May (doesn't help us in reality though, we have a wedding in August so all finances are tight till then... life hey!).

He did also show his hand, mentioning that the issue is if we go with someone else then the cost of the repair will be probably as much anyway as we'll need new scaffold.

To give some fairness to him, he did say he would happily leave the scaffold up a few weeks if we wanted to arrange another roofer. But then we're in the catch 22 of that not helping if other roofers don't want to use it/it makes us uncomfortable.

Not sure if there's any more advice you guys can give haha... Maybe I'm just venting... I'm going to try a few more roofers, see if any happen to be free to do a quote in next day or two. Have asked this guy to call me back this evening as he hasn't even explained to me at this point why re-fixing the 2 stones is a "bodge" and why that face of the stack needs a full rebuild... I could be wrong, but my gut says he knows that we're in a difficult position and so he can get away with quoting a £450 job when a £100 would suffice as it still ultimately will probably be cheaper than going with someone else.

Section62

joe90mitch said:

His reply started with "Hi, I'm happy with the scaffold as is", then went on to say in his opinion just fixing the 2 stones would be a bodge and he wouldn't want to do it.

....at times like this I wish that general building work was regulated as tightly as gas/electrics.

The scaffolding is clearly unsafe, a far greater bodge than refixing the two stones would be.

I'm not sure else I can add.  Given his responses in your position I personally would be reluctant to give him any more money.  There are potential issues with you asking a different builder to work on a scaffold which isn't safe, even if they are willing to.

The stones appear to be on the neighbour's side, so ultimately it is their responsibility to make sure they are safe - now you've alerted them to the issue.  It is probably more likely than not that the stones would fall into the flue rather than outside, so unless someone was standing directly under the chimney when they fell, it is likely to be a case of damage to property rather than injury to people.  If the neighbour can't/won't do anything then I think it would be fair to say you've done all you reasonably can.

The only outstanding issue is whether you are due a refund from the builder for charging you for scaffolding which isn't suitable/safe.  You could ask, but I don't expect their response will be sensible.

joe90mitch

Yeah, to be honest you've probably written very clearly the thoughts that have formed in the back of my mind re this firm... I don't think getting the scaffold refunded will see light of day, sadly, I will try to ask but I might just take it as a hit rather than going through stress of trying to reclaim it!

I'll still see if I can get some roofers round who can provide extra quotes for getting it done from scratch! Then perhaps re-communicate with our neighbour.

I think someone earlier said it's resting against the middle feather, so I guess there could be water ingress to both properties that way also, so that is one concern of mine. I really can't see my neighbour getting this done any time soon, sadly. Though saying that she is very slowly trying to renovate her house, with the roof being on the list, but it's all being delayed massively due to her illness, sadly.

joe90mitch

Probably worth giving a quick update, as I got so many useful replies to this thread. Bit of a happy outcome The guy who came round last Saturday and commented on the scaffolding text me midweek saying he could do this afternoon as he had a break in his other work.

So he's round now sorting it. Brought some scaffold ties to fix it in place and is currently up there just replacing the two stones. He said the stack is solid and there would have been no reason to rebuild one face. Also said that there were about 6 cracked tiles (he thinks the previous guys probably did it whilst up there) and he's replacing them free of charge as he had some spares apparently.

A nice end to the week Thanks everyone, especially @Section62 and @stuart45

Section62

joe90mitch said:

Probably worth giving a quick update, as I got so many useful replies to this thread. Bit of a happy outcome The guy who came round last Saturday and commented on the scaffolding text me midweek saying he could do this afternoon as he had a break in his other work.

So he's round now sorting it. Brought some scaffold ties to fix it in place and is currently up there just replacing the two stones. He said the stack is solid and there would have been no reason to rebuild one face. Also said that there were about 6 cracked tiles (he thinks the previous guys probably did it whilst up there) and he's replacing them free of charge as he had some spares apparently.

A nice end to the week Thanks everyone, especially @Section62 and @stuart45

Great news - sounds as though he is one of the good guys, knows what he is doing and treating you fairly.

When the scaffold comes down you may want to check the tiles on the extension roof too, as the way the other builder was working and how the scaffold has been put up means it is likely the damage was done by him, and there may be further damage caused by the scaffolders.

Thanks for letting us know you had a good outcome.