Backcester Lane Lichfield - cash payments not recognised

Protest

My wife used this private carpark on three occasions and now has three invoices (PCNs). On each occasion cash was entered; she is unlikely to have made a mistake with her reg data entry for her own car (since 2019), and certainly not on 3 occasions. EXCEL cannot see the reg number or something like it and seem also not to see the £2 cash payments. It is a paperless ANPR system so there is no proof of payment even though the payment process ends with a "Your parking session is now paid" screen message. We initially assumed that some odd operating step had been missed but, on review, the machine is very straightforward to use.  Presumably these machines (described by EXCEL as P&D, which they aren't!) need to register a reg number before they would accept cash?

Any thoughts? Is her absence of proof fatal to her case?

EXCEL first response just restates their " we can't see your reg" position and now requires me to "appeal" to their trade agency.

[This query is similar to avfcnicolen's case. But....."Please start a new thread of your own as dealing with any random number of other cases (no matter how similar) on one thread will lead to confusion and almost inevitable errors."]

Le_Kirk

Why assume it is the driver that is at fault (I see you are saying your wife would not have made the same mistake a) at all and b) three times) when it could have almost certainly been faulty equipment, entirely outside your/your wife's control.

Coupon-mad

Do an IAS appeal despite knowing the appellant will lose.  The point of it is to gather evidence for later.  When Excel provide and upload their evidence, download all of it and save the PDFs or email them to yourselves immediately, so you can refer to this 'evidence' later when Excel sue you, and you defend and win.

I hope it will later come back to bite them, as it did in Excel v Ambler. So that's why you want their evidence and logs now.

In your (free*) IAS appeal, demand evidence from the machine logs that a payment was not made that included keying records that were at least close to the VRM of the car.  State that the appellant cannot believe they made a keying error three times and are having to appeal three PCNs that in fact suggests a fault with their system.

State how much was paid.  If you own a second car, provide that VRM for them to look for too, in case that was what your wife did.

* do NOT use IAS if it's the late 'non-standard' farce that costs people £15 to lose.

Fruitcake

I'm sure that site has come up on here before, so I suggest you do a forum search to find other threads about that car park.
The IPC has a Get Your Reg Right campaign, and their "mantra" is that no motorist should be penalised or marginalised for entering an incorrect VRM. All IPC members are instructed to install typo proof systems as a "moral duty". You should be asking why this hasn't been installed at this site.
In any case, it is just as likely that it was the machine was faulty. Technology exists to prevent the VRM of a vehicle that was not in the car park from being entered by a motorist. The keypad entry and ANPR software should be linked such that an error message will appear if the registration numbers on the two systems don't match. Get Your Reg Right applies to the PPC just as much as it does to the motorist.

See here for the IPC's comment about the above.

The International Parking Community (IPC) on Twitter: "@_TheIPC's mantra is that no motorist should be marginalised - or humiliated! (See news article below) @_TheIPC's award nominated "Get Your Reg Right" campaign urges the manufacture of #typoproof #parking payment systems as a moral duty. #mondaythoughts https://t.co/izGqyc1wO0 https://t.co/ztH9lbYpX2" / Twitter

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated industry.

Snakes_Belly

It definitely has come up on here before. A petition has been started about this car park and there are a number of forum members on this forum that are currently defending claims. 

I have defended a claim from Excel but not in this car park. I am however familar with Lichfield. I cannot believe that Three Spires have given the contract to this aggressive ex-clamping company. Lichfield has lost several large stores and now has competition from the West Midland Designer Outlet where you can park all day for free. You would think that Lichfield would want to attract shoppers rather than put them off.

I have posted a link to the petition and chosen some of the comments on another thread.  

Snakes_Belly

Stefano123, hatty60, Adam and AVFC are all fighting claims as a result of parking in this car park.  Stefano could not make a payment via app so left the site. hatty60's case is the same scenario as Adam. AFVC is a blue badge case.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6288445/backcester-lane-lichfield-excel-parking#latest

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78802035#Comment_78802035

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78933074#Comment_78933074

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6335641/excel-parking-and-debt-recovery-help/p1

https://www.change.org/p/three-spires-shopping-centre-car-park-returned-to-council

Snakes_Belly

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6345160/excel-and-their-ticketless-machines/p1

My thread with comments from the petition.

Snakes_Belly

Gresley Row is also Excel so avoid that one.

Protest

Now entering the IAS intervention stage after a couple of standard exchanges via IAS with EXCEL plus various RED LETTER days reminding us of the 3 invoices they are chasing

So far they have provided evidence of parking (not in dispute), provided data prints showing the absence of reg number, but have offered no explanation of why data is missing, beyond finger error on my wife's part which is very unlikely, and no trace of the cash of course. They keep saying we needed to buy a ticket - but it is a paperless ANPR process.

So far we have simply stated our position - we did it right and paid cash into the machine. No further action is justified. 

It feels like we need a bigger hammer but is this the time to use it?

Coupon-mad

 the IAS intervention stage

Intervention? They only intervene for the parking firm.  If you mean you've been exchanging evidence om the IAS portal and the IAS 'adjudicator' is about to decide, then don't hold your breath.  96% of people lose. 

Yep.  96% and the IAS even think that's a good thing, according to the spin in their politically-barbed Annual Reports.  If you actually win at IAS then buy a lottery ticket because you are almost a one-off!

No-one PAYS after losing at IAS, I hope you know what you are in for?  You'll win in court and we'll help.

Snakes_Belly

I must go and look at this car park. So many people have had problems with this car park.

I don't think that a ticket is issued but from what I have read you can get a receipt if you press a button. 

Some of the comments on the petition will be useful for your WS.  If this is happening to a lot of motorists (which it is) it adds credence to your case.