n3rgy vs Glowmarkt API (Bright app/Hildebrand): different tariffs/unit rates

MWT

sebtomato said:

MWT said:

sebtomato said:

Interestingly, some of the data is now available on the EDF website, and doesn't match other sources either (n3rgy or Bright), when it comes to total usage per day, or split between day or nigh energy (kWh).

Even if we account for differences between UTC or BST time (I don't what EDF use to define a day), still some large differences.

I find it fascinating that several sources cannot come even close to providing the same data.

Quite worrying when it comes to billing accuracy.

Billing accuracy shouldn't be in question as it isn't using the data that you are having problems reconciling.

If the off peak time is not confirmed between the various sources, and sum of kWh in peak or off peak hours doesn't match at all (not even close), then yes, billing will be questionable.

The only bit that matters for billing is the part that the other two sources can't access, so the only part in question is if your R01 & R02 registers are switching at the right time.

You can verify that by taking your own meter readings for those two registers 24 hours apart and note the increase in the R02 reading, then just check one of the other data sources for the half-hour data to see if you can account for the increase in R02 using the appropriate half-hour periods...

... but you've already done that and you know the registers do add up to the change in R02, so what is the remaining concern..?

Phones4Chris

MWT said:

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The only bit that matters for billing is the part that the other two sources can't access, so the only part in question is if your R01 & R02 registers are switching at the right time.

Precisely that. What you need to establish @sebtomato is why you are being told your off-peak hours are different from what the ALCS is actually doing. Have you asked EDF that question?

sebtomato

MWT said:

... but you've already done that and you know the registers do add up to the change in R02, so what is the remaining concern..?

EDF data on its website doesn't even match either Glow or n3rgy, in term of kWh in peak (day) and off peak (night).

Therefore, I don't think I can trust EDF and I am therefore trying to find a reliable way to double check both consumption (kWh) and tariffs applicable, and something that doesn't involve me repeatedly going to the meter to check R1 and R2.

At least, consumption is matching between Glow and n3rgy, but tariff/rates don't, in term of when off peak is applied, so one is right and one is wrong. 

QrizB

sebtomato said:

Therefore, I don't think I can trust EDF and I am therefore trying to find a reliable way to double check both consumption (kWh) and tariffs applicable, and something that doesn't involve me repeatedly going to the meter to check R1 and R2.

R1 and R2 are what you are billed in, so if you want to double check your bills you're going to have to check R1 and R2.

sebtomato said:

At least, consumption is matching between Glow and n3rgy, but tariff/rates don't, in term of when off peak is applied, so one is right and one is wrong.

That doesn't necessarily follow, they could both be wrong. If your switch between R1 and R2 does not happen exactly on a 30-minute smart meter slice, neither will be correct.

sebtomato

QrizB said:

That doesn't necessarily follow, they could both be wrong. If your switch between R1 and R2 does not happen exactly on a 30-minute smart meter slice, neither will be correct.

N3rgy is showing a 2 hour period in peak time, when Glow is showing such period in off peak time/tariff, so it's not just an issue with a few minutes or a 30 min slice.

sebtomato

QrizB said:

R1 and R2 are what you are billed in, so if you want to double check your bills you're going to have to check R1 and R2.

But also that R1 and R2 are indeed correct, based on off peak hours but also based on the meter triggering the contactor at the right times.

For people on a single rate, checking a bill is easy.

For people on economy 7, checking a bill is more difficult, particularly if the various providers can't agree on off peak times, and therefore consumption during that time.

MWT

sebtomato said:

QrizB said:

That doesn't necessarily follow, they could both be wrong. If your switch between R1 and R2 does not happen exactly on a 30-minute smart meter slice, neither will be correct.

N3rgy is showing a 2 hour period in peak time, when Glow is showing such period in off peak time/tariff, so it's not just an issue with a few minutes or a 30 min slice.

I suspect you are dealing with the way they are interpreting the data.

n3rgy simply reports the tariff data separate from the consumption data and it would seem that the tariff is set up to have that split low rate period correctly.

The Glow approach seems to be tracking the switching between the registers which appears to be incorrect and so they show the whole period to be low rate, which matches what is being accumulated in the R01 & R02 registers...

So everything is understandable once you get used to the fact that there are several different pieces to this puzzle, the tariff schedule, the ALCS switching schedule, the half-hour buckets and the registers used for billing.

I would suggest that the fault is an incorrect ALCS schedule and if that was fixed you would find that all 3 would be showing the same pattern, but you might still have slight differences if the ALCS timing was not set to a precise half-hour point for the switching. 

Phones4Chris

sebtomato said:

QrizB said:

R1 and R2 are what you are billed in, so if you want to double check your bills you're going to have to check R1 and R2.

But also that R1 and R2 are indeed correct, based on off peak hours but also based on the meter triggering the contactor at the right times.

For people on a single rate, checking a bill is easy.

For people on economy 7, checking a bill is more difficult, particularly if the various providers can't agree on off peak times, and therefore consumption during that time.

If you have checked that the ALCS is switching for the 7 hours off peak to the R2 register, there should be nothing complicated about checking your BILL. The R1 and R2 readings should match the Bill precisely, there is no question of "trust".
Why the differences between what your are being told what your off-peak hours are (on paper or your online account?) and what they are in practise, and why the IHD and Apps give different information is yet to be established.

sebtomato

I have now done my own measurements, looking at when the off peak circuit comes live during the night (contactor), and it's indeed live from 23:35 and 01:35, and 03:35 to 08:35.

Therefore, both the Bright app and Glowmarket API are probably wrong, when it comes to off peak time and therefore cost. 

They both think that off peak runs from 23:30 to 08:30 without any peak time break. The n3rgy data is correct, in term of rates applicable per 30 min slot.

As for how I measured it, I had to make my own circuit using an ESP32 microcontroller, and hack a contactless current checker "pen" (basically powering it on periodically and checking the LED voltage).

The circuit is checking every 5 minutes whether there is current in the off peak wire connected to the hot water tank.

[Deleted User]

sebtomato said:

I have now done my own measurements, looking at when the off peak circuit comes live during the night (contactor), and it's indeed live from 23:35 and 01:35, and 03:35 to 08:35.

Therefore, both the Bright app and Glowmarket API are probably wrong, when it comes to off peak time and therefore cost. 

They both think that off peak runs from 23:30 to 08:30 without any peak time break. The n3rgy data is correct, in term of rates applicable per 30 min slot.

As for how I measured it, I had to make my own circuit using an ESP32 microcontroller, and hack a contactless current checker "pen" (basically powering it on periodically and checking the LED voltage).

The circuit is checking every 5 minutes whether there is current in the off peak wire connected to the hot water tank.

I think that you will find is easily explained by the fact that Bright records 30 minute usage from the start of the period, and suppliers time stamp the data 30 minutes later. This has been discussed many times in other fora. Hildebrand’s response has been that their App has been around since the early days of smart metering. It is maintained by staff who have other paid work to do, so keeping Bright fully updated is not seen as a high priority. Many of us for example would like to see solar exports included in the App. I have for the last couple of years suggested to Hildebrand that they should charge for the App to fund future development.