Off Peak Tariff

sebtomato

Scrounger said:

Scrounger said:

The chart above shows at 08:00 the billing changes from off-peak (£0.14) to peak rate (£0.29) but the ACLS contactor is not switching off until 08:30
Hence the spike in cost for the final 30 minutes (right chart).

Update: 02 May 22:

Interestingly, I re-visited the Bright data for 14 April 22 yesterday and noticed the cost chart has now changed (for the worse) - the peak rate is now shown starting an hour earlier than before (right chart, sorry about the change in y-scale).

AKAIK there has been no intervention by EDF as yet (the latest is that they are now insisting on a site visit!).  The Bright time of use and rates remain unchanged.

Any ideas why the Bright cost chart has changed (the kWh chart is unchanged)?

Scrounger

Based on my own data, the Bright app data cannot be trusted when it comes to cost, as it's applying the wrong rates at the wrong time in my case (economy 7).

Phones4Chris

sebtomato said:

Scrounger said:

Scrounger said:

The chart above shows at 08:00 the billing changes from off-peak (£0.14) to peak rate (£0.29) but the ACLS contactor is not switching off until 08:30
Hence the spike in cost for the final 30 minutes (right chart).

Update: 02 May 22:

Interestingly, I re-visited the Bright data for 14 April 22 yesterday and noticed the cost chart has now changed (for the worse) - the peak rate is now shown starting an hour earlier than before (right chart, sorry about the change in y-scale).

AKAIK there has been no intervention by EDF as yet (the latest is that they are now insisting on a site visit!).  The Bright time of use and rates remain unchanged.

Any ideas why the Bright cost chart has changed (the kWh chart is unchanged)?

Scrounger

Based on my own data, the Bright app data cannot be trusted when it comes to cost, as it's applying the wrong rates at the wrong time in my case (economy 7).

Have you checked your Bill for what you are being charged instead of claiming it's applying the wrong rates at the wrong time?

It is NOT specifically the Bright App, it's the IHD as well. It's because the incorrect information about the tariff is on the Smart Meter. That Tariff information is completely separate from the ALCS timing.
The same (misleading) Tariff timing is what appears on the bill. My last bill said (as do previous ones)  -
All times are GMT
Meter: 21M********* Tariff: Standard (Variable) - E7
Day: 0730-0030
Night: 0030-0730

The ALCS timing is different (the meter correctly switches to Rate 2 at the same time as the ALCS).
Before the smart meter, it said exactly the same (but a different meter number of course) and the times were miles out because it was a mechanical time switch which had not kept time! But the actual billing was correct - off peak usage was/is charged at the correct off-peak rates!

I've come to the conclusion that the Tariff data (prices) that the meter is loaded with (separate from the ALCS timing) includes the "generic" times for the area - which it's now obvious it shouldn't because it's misleading - I haven't thrown that one at EDF yet BUT I'm looking for a separate source of confirmation of this data. I don't know if @[Deleted User] knows for certain?

sebtomato

Phones4Chris said:

sebtomato said:

Scrounger said:

Scrounger said:

The chart above shows at 08:00 the billing changes from off-peak (£0.14) to peak rate (£0.29) but the ACLS contactor is not switching off until 08:30
Hence the spike in cost for the final 30 minutes (right chart).

Update: 02 May 22:

Interestingly, I re-visited the Bright data for 14 April 22 yesterday and noticed the cost chart has now changed (for the worse) - the peak rate is now shown starting an hour earlier than before (right chart, sorry about the change in y-scale).

AKAIK there has been no intervention by EDF as yet (the latest is that they are now insisting on a site visit!).  The Bright time of use and rates remain unchanged.

Any ideas why the Bright cost chart has changed (the kWh chart is unchanged)?

Scrounger

Based on my own data, the Bright app data cannot be trusted when it comes to cost, as it's applying the wrong rates at the wrong time in my case (economy 7).

Have you checked your Bill for what you are being charged instead of claiming it's applying the wrong rates at the wrong time?

In my case, off peak hours are not correct with Bright, but correct with n3rgy and EDF. IHD is fine too.

If Bright doesn't apply the correct rates at the correct times, the consumption cost will of course be not correct...

Therefore, if I were you, I wouldn't rely on data from Bright.

Phones4Chris

sebtomato said:

Phones4Chris said:

sebtomato said:

Scrounger said:

Scrounger said:

The chart above shows at 08:00 the billing changes from off-peak (£0.14) to peak rate (£0.29) but the ACLS contactor is not switching off until 08:30
Hence the spike in cost for the final 30 minutes (right chart).

Update: 02 May 22:

Interestingly, I re-visited the Bright data for 14 April 22 yesterday and noticed the cost chart has now changed (for the worse) - the peak rate is now shown starting an hour earlier than before (right chart, sorry about the change in y-scale).

AKAIK there has been no intervention by EDF as yet (the latest is that they are now insisting on a site visit!).  The Bright time of use and rates remain unchanged.

Any ideas why the Bright cost chart has changed (the kWh chart is unchanged)?

Scrounger

Based on my own data, the Bright app data cannot be trusted when it comes to cost, as it's applying the wrong rates at the wrong time in my case (economy 7).

Have you checked your Bill for what you are being charged instead of claiming it's applying the wrong rates at the wrong time?

In my case, off peak hours are not correct with Bright, but correct with n3rgy and EDF. IHD is fine too.

If Bright doesn't apply the correct rates at the correct times, the consumption cost will of course be not correct...

Therefore, if I were you, I wouldn't rely on data from Bright.

@sebtomato Let's be clear, it's already been established that if the meter has not been updated with the correct Tariff information, then the cost information will be wrong in any case. Are you saying that the App kWh data is also wrong?

Next, bearing in mind what you've posted here and in other threads, please clarify - you are getting 7 hours off-peak, and these are 2 hours off-peak followed by two hours peak rate followed by 5 hours off-peak? (Not what apps or anything else says, what the meter ALCS is actually doing)? Please confirm the times the ALCS switches. Does the meter switch to R02 at the same time as the ALCS operates?

You say the IHD is fine. So leading upto the start of the off-peak when the IHD shows its 60 minute count down (10 minute chunks), when it gets to zero and therefore says you are now on off-peak rate does the ALCS operate at the same time?

In your OP in this thread which EDF agents made the statements on commissioning, were they Chat agents?

@scrounger

Scrounger said:

...................

AKAIK there has been no intervention by EDF as yet (the latest is that they are now insisting on a site visit!).  The Bright time of use and rates remain unchanged.

Any ideas why the Bright cost chart has changed (the kWh chart is unchanged)?

Scrounger

Yes, playing with the Bright App, I've discovered that some pages/tabs don't update at the same time when you do a data refresh. Presumably it's because it's not getting all the data from the DCC at the same instant, quite a few hours can go by before everything is fully updated.

But (both of you) I've discovered a couple of other "bugs" - 
On the "Home" page, under Electricity Summary, the Daily Usage is actually today's (so far), not the Previous day as the Information bubble suggests. The figure doesn't tally with the "Latest Daily Usage" shown above, the latter is higher and I can't yet get it to tally with any daily usage
(However, the Daily Usage under the Summary does tally correctly with the usage on the Electricity "Day" tab for the current day.)
I've asked about that one but since discovered on the Home page, if you click on "SHOW TIME OF USE RATES" the text show the "generic" GMT rates (bearing in mind the meter hasn't been updated, it's old rates) but if you scroll on the graph above, the green bubble shows times an hour earlier !! They obviously have some GMT/BST bugs in their software somewhere! I haven't yet asked about this one, not had a response to the previous one yet.

Phones4Chris

A brief update. I've now looked at the Tariff data on the meter having downloaded it for the previous day using n3rgy. That data contains the standing charge and the half hourly generic GMT times for peak/off-peak charges, which in my region are 0730-0030 TOU Rate 1 and 0030-0730 TOU Rate 2. eg.-

"2022-05-04","standingCharge","24.11","","","","","","","",""
"2022-05-04 00:00","touPrice","","22.97","","","","","","",""
"2022-05-04 00:30","touPrice","","12.06","","","","","","",""
"2022-05-04 01:00","touPrice","","12.06","","","","","","",""    etc.

(Those are the old tariff rates as the meter hasn't been updated since my previous tariff ended on Jan.31st!)
So it's pretty obvious this is where the IHD and the Bright app get their information, and as has been said previously any cost information provided on the Bright App or the IHD is not going to be accurate unless the rate switching R01/R02 & ALCS timing is exactly on a half-hour/hour where the supplier uses R01/R02 data for billing.

Swipe

Phones4Chris said:

So it's pretty obvious this is where the IHD and the Bright app get their information, and as has been said previously any cost information provided on the Bright App or the IHD is not going to be accurate unless the rate switching R01/R02 & ALCS timing is exactly on a half-hour/hour where the supplier uses R01/R02 data for billing.

My switching time is delayed by 6 mins and the IHD is correct in terms of cost to the dot but the Bright app is slightly out.

Phones4Chris

Swipe said:

Phones4Chris said:

So it's pretty obvious this is where the IHD and the Bright app get their information, and as has been said previously any cost information provided on the Bright App or the IHD is not going to be accurate unless the rate switching R01/R02 & ALCS timing is exactly on a half-hour/hour where the supplier uses R01/R02 data for billing.

My switching time is delayed by 6 mins and the IHD is correct in terms of cost to the dot but the Bright app is slightly out.

So on your IHD (Chameleon 3), as you approach off-peak time, the countdown green bars on the RHS are in perfect sync with the ALCS activating?
Can you use n3rgy and down load the data and see what the tariff info says, similar to what I posted above? (You may have to try several times before it gets any data, about 24hrs before I got any data).

Swipe

Phones4Chris said:

Swipe said:

Phones4Chris said:

So it's pretty obvious this is where the IHD and the Bright app get their information, and as has been said previously any cost information provided on the Bright App or the IHD is not going to be accurate unless the rate switching R01/R02 & ALCS timing is exactly on a half-hour/hour where the supplier uses R01/R02 data for billing.

My switching time is delayed by 6 mins and the IHD is correct in terms of cost to the dot but the Bright app is slightly out.

So on your IHD (Chameleon 3), as you approach off-peak time, the countdown green bars on the RHS are in perfect sync with the ALCS activating?

My Chameleon 3 has no countdown bars on the right hand side. In a nutshell, I hear my circuit clunk, the storage heater comes on and my current tariff flips over to off peak price at the exact time (at least it did when I was able to check it on the IHD) and if I leg it outside, the off peak tariff is shown as current tariff on the smart meter if I scroll through the registers.

Scrounger

RHS = Right Hand Side

I concur.  At Scrounger HQ my E7 (off) switchover TOU1/2, IHD & ALCS are all in sync at 08.30 BST (exactly).

Scrounger

Phones4Chris

Scrounger said:

RHS = Right Hand Side

I concur.  At Scrounger HQ my E7 (off) switchover TOU1/2, IHD & ALCS are all in sync at 08.30 BST (exactly).

Scrounger

Well if yours switches exactly on the half-hour, that comes as no surprise, that is to be expected. Mine doesn't, the ALCS is 0039/0739 GMT.

@Swipe, so your IHD shows you switch to off-peak at exactly the same instant (as you mention 6 minutes I assume 0036/0736 GMT?). Interesting you don't have countdown bars. Can you download your data using n3rgy as well? It would be good to try and compare what is going on here and try and get a better understanding.