Guidance on purchasing a house 'with potential'; renovation, project, financing

Bendy_House

Ach, chust glue up each layer of PUR, and then glue the p'board to that. I'm pretty sure it'll stay up...

Ectophile

TELLIT01 said:

theoretica said:

Never put decoration and carpets first - make sure you have done all messy in the area work first.  Which includes the thing you didn't mention - electrics.  Which will definitely need checking and may need or want changes if it still has a 1950s number of sockets.

Absolutely agree, electrics are the first thing to be checked, and if they haven't been touched in decades a rewire is almost a certainty.  It is probably the messiest job in any renovation and will take time and a considerable amount of money.  As I understand current regs the OP won't be able to touch any of it as wording has been changed from 'competent or qualified person' to 'qualified person' to do the work.

If the property was build in the 50s or possibly earlier the plaster may not be in the best of conditions either and a partial replaster in some rooms may be required.  More time and cost.

The OP needs to remove the rose coloured glasses which I suspect so many of us wear when we see a house we really like.

You can rewire your entire house if you like.  As with other building jobs, you would have to pay Building Control fees, and get the job signed off by them.

A registered electrician, with one of the schemes, is allowed to "self-certify" their own work.  So Building Control isn't required.

benson1980

The main thing I’d look at is your returns on the extension and whether it is worth it, versus just buying a more expensive house in the first place. This is what puts your renovation budget in a different ball park and was quite often not a great return in terms of investment even before cost of materials shot up, and builders became even busier. Decor costs can obviously vary depending on what level of finish you want but those costings in those areas don’t look unreasonable to me. I also wouldn’t necessary write off the ch system.

FaceHead

benson1980 said:

The main thing I’d look at is your returns on the extension and whether it is worth it, versus just buying a more expensive house in the first place....

No self-renovation would ever make sense on this basis, particularly if you valued your own time (even at, say, the minimum wage).

If anyone thinks they'll buy a wreck and self-renovate it and it'll come out any cheaper than just buying a more expensive home is kidding themselves, and will run out of cash halfway through. 

It will cost at least as much as buying it, if not more - when it's your own home it's natural to choose to do things like re-wiring, insulation, re-plastering etc. that a property developer would avoid if possible, and these things won't have been done in most equivalent homes you'll be able to purchase. In this thread we've added many £'000's to the OP's shopping list, and no one has lifted a floorboard yet to find (say) the damp problems or the dodgy plumbing.

The reasons for self-renovating include:
- You want to
- You get to choose everything yourself, and have it done exactly how you want
- You can't afford to buy what you want, so plan to assemble it slowly

In exchange you get to live in a house newly done up to your specification. Eventually. If you're really lucky and control the cost well you might be able to get back nearly all of your money when you come to sell - hopefully not for a good while, as you want to be enjoying your finished project.

But if you bought an equivalent home, then you'd still get the money back when you sell it. 

Thinking in terms of the renovation cost < value added is property developer thinking, and as the OP appears to be looking for a home not a business opportunity, they are at risk of losing out to the professionals. 

benson1980

FaceHead said:

benson1980 said:

The main thing I’d look at is your returns on the extension and whether it is worth it, versus just buying a more expensive house in the first place....

No self-renovation would ever make sense on this basis, particularly if you valued your own time (even at, say, the minimum wage).

If anyone thinks they'll buy a wreck and self-renovate it and it'll come out any cheaper than just buying a more expensive home is kidding themselves, and will run out of cash halfway through. 

It will cost at least as much as buying it, if not more - when it's your own home it's natural to choose to do things like re-wiring, insulation, re-plastering etc. that a property developer would avoid if possible, and these things won't have been done in most equivalent homes you'll be able to purchase. In this thread we've added many £'000's to the OP's shopping list, and no one has lifted a floorboard yet to find (say) the damp problems or the dodgy plumbing.

The reasons for self-renovating include:
- You want to
- You get to choose everything yourself, and have it done exactly how you want
- You can't afford to buy what you want, so plan to assemble it slowly

In exchange you get to live in a house newly done up to your specification. Eventually. If you're really lucky and control the cost well you might be able to get back nearly all of your money when you come to sell - hopefully not for a good while, as you want to be enjoying your finished project.

But if you bought an equivalent home, then you'd still get the money back when you sell it. 

Thinking in terms of the renovation cost < value added is property developer thinking, and as the OP appears to be looking for a home not a business opportunity, they are at risk of losing out to the professionals. 

 Our buying strategy has always been value for money, and factoring in market rises we've made/saved a lot by taking on renovations (4th one currently, and hopefully last). But yes I take your point about your own time- guess it depends how you are happy spending your free time and if we got the trades in to do what we have done each time, our budgets would have easily doubled.

greensalad

I am currently in this exact situation. We bought a house with bags of potential that needed a full redecoration, including new kitchen and bathrooms. It also would massively benefit from an extension due to a very ropey old conservatory that is open to the rest of the house. Anyway...

Everyone is right that you cannot get anywhere NEAR as much as you think you can in a few days/weeks. We have been here 5 weeks now with one week each off work, and have definitely made improvements already but everything takes much longer than expected. For example I had hoped to wallpaper a small office in 2 days with help (my Mum). It took us almost 4. If you're not used to doing hours of physical labour per day (I am an office worker) then you may well struggle to keep going on DIY for hours on end. At least that's what I discovered.

Also everything costs a lot more, somehow the things you thought would be incredibly expensive (like a new fireplace, or having carpet laid) are so much cheaper. But the things that feel like they shouldn't cost a lot (moving a light fixture, having new skirting boards put on) cost way more than you'd think. 

I would say go for it BUT a) make sure that you can finance the vast majority of it out of pocket. We have purchased a sofa and a TV on credit card and everything else comes out of our paycheques each month. Everything is therefore slower than expected. Even paint is so much more expensive than I expected! £150 to paint one of our rooms! b) make sure the house is liveable in its current state in terms of any big jobs like extensions, new kitchen, new bathroom. You're likely going to be stuck with them for a while as you build up your finances in between projects.

greensalad

Bendy_House said:

Choose over-sized rads so they'll provide enough heat output whilst running at a lower temp. This will not only be cheaper with oil and gas boilers, but will also lend itself to easier conversion to Heat Pumps and solar at a later stage is needed.

Where were you when I put in rads that were the "correct" BTUs 3 weeks ago (and am now freezing to death and am having someone back to upsize a few).

tonymse

Hi I think that you should check your costings as I should allow about £200 K for the works you have suggested as there will always be hidden problems that need rectifying..

You may also need to employ a professional to work with Planning consent and building regs etc.

You could possibly get the insulation done free from your Electricity or Gas supplier.

Regarding your timescale I think that in the way you are planning on doing it, you should allow at least 6 months plus .

The next question is, bearing this in mind is it still worth it, after all of this ?

dearface

tonymse said:

Hi I think that you should check your costings as I should allow about £200 K for the works you have suggested as there will always be hidden problems that need rectifying..

You may also need to employ a professional to work with Planning consent and building regs etc.

You could possibly get the insulation done free from your Electricity or Gas supplier.

Regarding your timescale I think that in the way you are planning on doing it, you should allow at least 6 months plus .

The next question is, bearing this in mind is it still worth it, after all of this ?

How would that 200k breakdown in your view please?

andyf1980

We are in the process of doing this. I have retained some equity from our house sale to undertake some of the work. The rest will be funded from monthly pay and possibly a remortgage further down the line. 

Ultimately, the house is in our preferred location with a large private garden and good school catchment. We haven’t seen any other similar house that hasn’t needed a lot of work doing.