Guidance on purchasing a house 'with potential'; renovation, project, financing

dearface

Hi,

My partner and I have seen a property we think has real potential for the money & location.  It's a 3-bedroom semi-detached with average sized rooms throughout (except the kitchen which is tiny...less than 2m wide!).  Probably ~1950s original build, not a huge amount has changed since then from what I can see (the seller is an old lady who is moving to a care home).  Total floor space approx 85m2.  We've not got DIY/renovation experience, I'd say I'm quite practical though (engineer!).

The most pressing issues, with my estimates of cost and duration:
1) Very old decor throughout.   All bedrooms need new carpets and walls/ceilings painted...6 weeks, DIY (long weekends), £4k 
2) I suspect central heating and boiler is ancient, so will need replacing (worst case).  [Replace plumbing, need to check if necessary]...2 weeks, installed, £6k [+£8k]
3) Bathroom renovation...£6k
4) Extension to rear of property, single floor, to widen the kitchen and lengthen the living room, total 18m2 extra.  With skylights and folding doors...~6 months, installed, £45k
5) New laminate flooring in living room and kitchen...4 weeks, DIY (long weekends), £2k
6) New kitchen (14m2) and white goods...5 weeks, installed, £15k

1), 2) and 3) are essential for us prior to moving in.  4) pretty important too, however we do want to move in quite quickly for cost reasons, so waiting half a year probably isn't feasible for us.

Questions:
A) does the above seem logical in terms of flow?
am I missing any obvious steps?
C) are the costs and durations reasonable estimates for now?
D) for 4) I'm considering employing an architect to support as a minimum the design, possibly also project manage.  I'm working on the assumption that we'll pay a little bit more for quite a lot of design input, at least compared to using a draftsman.  Thoughts?
E) I've not had experience of this from a mortgage point of view.  I understand I can apply for a mortgage for the house, plus costs for the extension (provided the lender believes the extension adds sufficient return on investment ito added value)...is this correct?  How does the lender determine how much they are willing to loan for the extension (based on an indicative quote with drawings from an architect & draftsman)?  Also, how many of the items can be included in the mortgage agreement?


Many thanks to those who can support with any of the questions!

FaceHead

I think you are underestimating the costs across the board, and grossly overestimating how much you can get done in a weekend, e.g. laying flooring without having done it before. 

Add a 50% optimism bias to all your costs, and you might just about be able to squeeze it out for that - as long as you don't add on other jobs, like adding sockets, needing plastering, or chosing to replace skirting boards, because you have removed them to add a plug socket. 

A weekend is much less productive than consecutive days - you're always getting your stuff out, putting it away, washing up paint brushes etc. It's a real drag on productivity, but the biggest thing that will make it take so so much longer than you've suggested is that you're going to be watching a lot of YouTube videos, and trial and erroring to figure out how stuff works. 

You will uncover a heap of problems and find yourself both needed to do loads more work, and choosing to, e.g. replace internal doors, paint the hall, properly prep the rooms for decorating, rather than just slap some paint on. 

All that negative stuff said, I've been there, done it, and would do it again. 

Edit: on funding, you're borrowing against the house you're buying, and need to fund the renovation with cash, a second loan and/or credit card(s). Mainstream lenders don't usually (there are probably exceptions) lend more than the house is worth because you've pinky promised to spend the money on doing it up and adding value. 

theoretica

Never put decoration and carpets first - make sure you have done all messy in the area work first.  Which includes the thing you didn't mention - electrics.  Which will definitely need checking and may need or want changes if it still has a 1950s number of sockets.

twopenny

What isn't clear is if you plan to do all this work yourself.

The boiler for instance will require someone qualified, pipe work, radiators, balancing the system.

Unless you are very lucky most heating engineers and plumbers are booked several months ahead. At least 6 in my experience.

The other that comes to mind

Builders for the extension? Ours have a couple of months min to come and give an estimate there is so much work on and people away with the virus.

Carpet deliveries and fitters there is a huge backlog with getting them. 4K seems tight.

"employing an architect to support as a minimum the design, possibly also project manage." Do you know such a person? An architect who has the time to spend project managing? Presumably they are charging the same rate as they do for design but hours and travel sorting out whoever's working, chasing up deliveries?

I get the feeling that you are basing this on normal times and wishful thinking and not in Covid post pandemic times.

It's doable but it's a very optimistic time frame.

Chronotrigger

Hey there I was in a similar situation to you. Bought a house from an old lady who passed away (probate sale). It hadn't been modernised since the 1970s essentially apart from the front door, boiler and early generation double glazing from the 90s.

We had to get the house electrics rewired and get some pipes moved for the plumbing. These will be essential things necessary for your list which professionals will have to carry out before you begin on the decor.

You also have to think about the floor boards and if they need updating, the last thing you want after installing new laminate or a new carpet is a squeak when you step on it.

Depending on the condition of the walls you should consider replastering them too. This could take weeks to dry but will give you the desired finish for your decor. This is also usually best done by a professional in my opinion.

FreeBear

Windows & doors - Are they decent, modern double/triple glazed ?

If they are, when you install a new heating system, move the radiators to internal walls. If planned correctly, this will reduce the amount of pipes that need to be fitted. You haven't mentioned insulation - A fair bet that there is minimal insulation in the loft. That will be another weekend of work, but not hugely expensive for materials (maybe £200 if you can get a 3 for 2 deal at Wickes or B&Q). Moving the radiators away from under the windows gives you the opportunity to add insulation to the external walls on the inside - The way energy prices are going, it would be foolish not to insulate the walls when the opportunity presents its self.

Agree with others regarding the time scales - Niece moved into a 2 bed terrace over Christmas. Three months on, painting & decorating still isn't finished.

TELLIT01

theoretica said:

Never put decoration and carpets first - make sure you have done all messy in the area work first.  Which includes the thing you didn't mention - electrics.  Which will definitely need checking and may need or want changes if it still has a 1950s number of sockets.

Absolutely agree, electrics are the first thing to be checked, and if they haven't been touched in decades a rewire is almost a certainty.  It is probably the messiest job in any renovation and will take time and a considerable amount of money.  As I understand current regs the OP won't be able to touch any of it as wording has been changed from 'competent or qualified person' to 'qualified person' to do the work.

If the property was build in the 50s or possibly earlier the plaster may not be in the best of conditions either and a partial replaster in some rooms may be required.  More time and cost.

The OP needs to remove the rose coloured glasses which I suspect so many of us wear when we see a house we really like.

Bendy_House

DearFace, well done on getting the location location location bit. Now it should be insulation insulation and more insulation.

You should seriously consider lining all the exterior walls (ie the insides of the outside walls) with insulated plasterboard, which can simply be D&D'd in place, with a few mechanical fixings to boot. If the existing plaster is at all dodgy, rip it off first - tho' that will be messy.

(Would a good idea here be to consider doing this in separate layers if you are running lots of cables and pipes down the wall. Ie, attach the rigid insulation to the walls first, channel into them as little/shallow as possible for the cable/pipe runs, foam-fill over the ducting, trim level and ali-tape over this, and then overboard with p'board? Make sure everything - socket back boxes, etc - has some insulation behind and around it.)

And make sure the floor is draft-proofed 100%. If they are getting removed in any case, then add insulation between the joists, foamed-sealed together and around the edges. If the floor isn't coming up (or access to underneath is poor), then lay a layer of fibreboard insulation'underlay on top of the floor - say 8mm thick - again sealed together and around the edges.

Choose over-sized rads so they'll provide enough heat output whilst running at a lower temp. This will not only be cheaper with oil and gas boilers, but will also lend itself to easier conversion to Heat Pumps and solar at a later stage is needed.

FreeBear

Bendy_House said: You should seriously consider lining all the exterior walls (ie the insides of the outside walls) with insulated plasterboard, which can simply be D&D'd in place, with a few mechanical fixings to boot. If the existing plaster is at all dodgy, rip it off first - tho' that will be messy.

Going back to bare brick will gain 15-25mm on room size. Not a huge amount, but every inch counts. If using insulated plasterboard, go for PIR/PUR rather than EPS (polystyrene) - The former has a better u-value, so you don't need as much to hit the BR targets. I prefer to use the warm batten method with fully sealed & taped joints. More work, marginally cheaper, but you get a vapour control membrane for free, and battens can be put in place to screw things like curtain rails to.

Bendy_House

FreeBear said:

Going back to bare brick will gain 15-25mm on room size. Not a huge amount, but every inch counts. If using insulated plasterboard, go for PIR/PUR rather than EPS (polystyrene) - The former has a better u-value, so you don't need as much to hit the BR targets. I prefer to use the warm batten method with fully sealed & taped joints. More work, marginally cheaper, but you get a vapour control membrane for free, and battens can be put in place to screw things like curtain rails to.

Yes but...

Yes, I'd only removed the existing plaster if it was noticeably deteriorating - which is unlikely in a 1950's house. Too messy and too much like hard work otherwise.

Totally agree about type of insulation to use. I personally (having gone the batten method before) would, I think, now go for a thicker layer of PIR/PUR straight on to the wall. For the same thickness, you'll get a better U value. And it's far less work, compared to drilling and screwing numerous holes for the battens. Also, I think the PUR acts as a vapour barrier (I'm pretty sure).

Yes, mounting items on there afterwards will be more awkward, but I personally don't consider that enough of a reason not to.

FreeBear

Bendy_House said: Totally agree about type of insulation to use. I personally (having gone the batten method before) would, I think, now go for a thicker layer of PIR/PUR straight on to the wall. For the same thickness, you'll get a better U value. And it's far less work, compared to drilling and screwing numerous holes for the battens. Also, I think the PUR acts as a vapour barrier (I'm pretty sure).

It is the aluminuim foil that acts as the VCM , hence the need to tape it. Using 25mm sheets gives you three taped vapour barriers (if going for 75mm of insulation). Last time I purchased Kingspan PIR boards, there was little difference in price between one 50mm sheet or two 25mm sheets - That looks to have changed, and the price appears to have gone up by ~50% in the last month (ouch). Still a lot cheaper than insulated PB though.