£430 item despatched despite saying don't, Sat for 4 weeks outside, gone missing.

jumeriah64

Morning all, hoping you can help me with options please.

Ordered some 'made to order' items. Cost over £400. Have used this company a few times and spent over £1.5k over 3-4 months. DIY made to order parts unique to our application. Zero value to anyone else.

We specifically (in writing) said 'not to ship' until a certain date, 4 weeks ahead as we were away. They shipped and the item arrived 2 days after we left the UK and item was left outside. No-one was at the property and we live on a busy road. Needless to say items were not there when we returned 4 weeks later.

Coincidently, we contacted the company whilst away and re-confirmed the return date and just reminding them they could ship. Time was a factor.

They emailed confirming they had and the item was shipped several weeks back.

The items were cut to size DIY parts. They would have zero value to anyone else. But of course a parcel left on a busy road could be an attraction.

They then said the courier had 'gone bust'. It took time for proof of delivery to be obtained. We now have that and they say has a signature. There is indeed a squiggle on there but 100% is not ours or anyone we know. I suspect the driver did it and we have seen that a few times occur.

They avoid to even discuss resupply of the items or refund. And indeed now have stopped discussion altogether. We have maintained cordial requests and even been understanding of the situation. But they are offering zero in return bar sending proof of delivery.

I should say, I have full email trail, there were no off-line conversations, it is all in one continuous thread.

I'm wondering what options I have. Legal, Small Claims etc. And of course am I wasting my time or have a case at all? 

Would very much appreciate some guidance. The company concerned have just walked with not even the slightest hint of understanding, help, not even a sorry. 

Many thanks in advance

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/29/enacted

Passing of risk

(1)A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.

(2)The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods.

Very simply the goods are at the company's risk until they are in your hands (or someone you named), delivered outside your door doesn't count. If they have a signature do they have GPS data? Could the parcel have been delivered to a neighbour? 

There have been a couple of threads here where passing of risk has been debated extensively, basically the fact the company use a third party to preform delivery is their choice and risk, letter before action and small claims is the way to recover the funds. 

Whether they will defend or fold is hard to say, are they a big company or small company?

Above assumes you are consumer (rather than a business), made to order or custom doesn't affect your rights with regards to this specific problem. 

jumeriah64

Appreciate the rapid reply and a great username by the way.

They do have a POD and with a long elongated S where signature should be. They have just supplied that. We do not dispute the delivery. That said we have zero proof either bar the long requested POD from the apparently defunct courier. I tend to believe that as well. But we absolutely did not receive the items. Nor did anyone sign for them.

No, the neighbours are exceptional at receiving and passing on items for us. We all work well in that respect. And indeed the POD we eventually received, details our home address. 

They are not a big company. I think they are a small to medium niche product supplier into the DIY market. They essentially cut things to size and supply them. The items sent would have zero value to anyone else.

Yes we a home consumer and the items were for use within the same home ... a kitchen refurbishment. 

Thank you for the link and extract above. That's encouraging.

And I should say, we do order a huge amount of stuff on-line and for many years .... from the usual suspects and more specialist suppliers. And this is the very first time we experienced such a problem.

So understanding the data you kindly sent, how might be the best way to proceed with this? As I say, despite their somewhat dismissive communication style (not even a sorry) we have maintained a cordial tone and polite requests for either re-supply or refund and we source elsewhere, how would we best approach the problem? 

jumeriah64

Apologies I just noticed (re-read) that you mention letter and small claims in your advice. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Best thing to do is go back with the above text pointing out the goods were at their risk until you actually have them so if the courier has left them somewhere else (whether that be by your door or with another person) it's still their responsibility to either see the goods reach you (probably by way of replacement) or for them to refund.

If you were away you obviously have a better position to show you didn't get the parcel (I assume no one was house sitting so it wouldn't be possible for the courier to deliver to a person at your address).

If you aren't able to come to a agreement with them all such thing do come down to the letter before action (templates available on Google) and then small claims.

You can of course come to any agreement, perhaps for them to resupply at cost or half price for example, but you obviously don't have to. 

The signature doesn't really mean anything but really you are disputing the delivery and need to be clear on that. If the trader delivered the goods themselves and decided to leave them on your door step or with another person rather than physically hand them to you that would of course be their decision and risk. All that's happened here is they've used a third party (the courier) instead of doing the delivery themselves but that third party is their agent and they are responsible for their actions. 

jumeriah64

Perfect and made perfectly clear. I appreciate you spending the time to do that.

As you say, I think we tick every box in terms of having made clear instructions and requests, have very clear transaction trail and have offered them options that might suit them as well as us. Equally it's not like we disagree their data. Nor are we unreceptive to the fact that mistakes can happen.

But in return they have been perfunctory, have chosen to avoid the options offered up in favour of (eventually) obtaining a POD and offering near zero in terms of customer service, feeling or human understanding. Not drivers in law I understand but had a little bit of warmth been offered then we may well have taken a wider view.

I will do precisely as you say. I feel confident about that. I also feel that should communications prove unproductive that we absolutely will pursue the small claims route even if it incurs cost.

The worst of it being, having spent over £2k with them, we had a good deal more that we would have ordered and spent had we had some customer service from them. Shame as the delivered product was just right, if not the service. 

Again, I appreciate the direction and effort from your side. I will come back to you with results. Many thanks

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

jumeriah64 said:

Perfect and made perfectly clear. I appreciate you spending the time to do that.

As you say, I think we tick every box in terms of having made clear instructions and requests, have very clear transaction trail and have offered them options that might suit them as well as us. Equally it's not like we disagree their data. Nor are we unreceptive to the fact that mistakes can happen.

But in return they have been perfunctory, have chosen to avoid the options offered up in favour of (eventually) obtaining a POD and offering near zero in terms of customer service, feeling or human understanding. Not drivers in law I understand but had a little bit of warmth been offered then we may well have taken a wider view.

I will do precisely as you say. I feel confident about that. I also feel that should communications prove unproductive that we absolutely will pursue the small claims route even if it incurs cost.

The worst of it being, having spent over £2k with them, we had a good deal more that we would have ordered and spent had we had some customer service from them. Shame as the delivered product was just right, if not the service. 

Again, I appreciate the direction and effort from your side. I will come back to you with results. Many thanks

More than welcome Hopefully it will end with a good result without too much trouble on your part.  

powerful_Rogue

Another couple of options if you don't get anywhere with the comany/ How did you pay? If a debit card, consider opening a chargeback for non delivery. If credit card, a section 75 claim for non delivery.

jumeriah64

powerful_Rogue said:

Another couple of options if you don't get anywhere with the comany/ How did you pay? If a debit card, consider opening a chargeback for non delivery. If credit card, a section 75 claim for non delivery.

Many thanks for the the suggestion. It was paid on an Amex card. Have to say I'd not thought of that.

And does non-delivery also include delivered but at wrong time and missing? I guess it would as was discussed earlier. 

It's certainly worth a call to them given the total lack of co-operation and ownership of the selling business.

Thanks for the suggestion.

mark55man

remember with Section 75 AMEX will pay (unless they dispute) and then look to get the money back from the supplier, so it can be useful as they are likely to be better at it than Joe Public.  Although I am sure you will do fine if you go it alone  

jumeriah64

Many thanks mark55man. All new territory for me but very solid advice. I will be contacting Amex and doing as you mention. 

I think a combination of that, the letter with the content highlighted earlier referencing the Consumer Rights 2015 metrics gives me a very robust means of reply.

Thanks for taking the time to reply with the advice. It's genuinely pleasing to see folks on this point share their skills and advice in such an open and useful way.

I will report back on how I get on.