Would a small home battery system (2kwh), without any solar, help with household energy bill crisis

PGammage

Whilst looking at energy efficiencies for my house, in particular Solar PV and battery storage I had a thought .......

Would a small household battery system (2.4kwh), without any solar, help with the home energy bill crisis?  

Here's my thinking

https://pghintsandtips.blogspot.com/p/household-energy-bill-crisis-can-small.html

If just 1% of UK households had a 2.4kwh battery, that would not only result in savings on electricity bills as it would effectively allow off peak energy to be used during peak, and it would also create 6Gw of distributed storage in the grid (2.4kwh * 1% of 25m households). That redistribution of energy consumption could result in significant grid savings resulting from a smoothing of the peaks and troughs of electricity generation 🤔. 

Bendy_House

That's interesting indeed, and I suspect it's the way things will be going.
One of the big drawbacks with renewables is it's inconsistency, being so dependent, and highly variable, on wind or sun and stuff.
How to buffer this out? Storage systems. That can be done in two main ways - one is HUGE batteries in each area, and t'other way is with countless little ones.

A house we looked at a few years back had a large PV array, a battery, and a deal with 'Smart' electrical. Part of the deal was that they could pinch any spare power you had at peak times, whilst they recharged your batteries overnight at cheap rates. 
Hard to figure out how effective that could be as an isolated case, but I can see it working on a larger scale, and we have to start somewhere.
I suspect such ideas will need large subsidies to begin with, or else folk wouldn't entertain it, but it could well become the norm.

PGammage

@Bendy_House that's the objective of the blog. Firstly seed the idea, secondly to tweak it to its most viable option, but most of all - thirdly to garner support from those who can make it happen.

If you know someine is in the know, point them at this and let's see if we can get something happening. Even on a small scale it will benefit some.

bris

It costs electricity to recharge the battery so without solar how do you recharge the battery?

PGammage

bris said:

It costs electricity to recharge the battery so without solar how do you recharge the battery?

You charge off peak at 25% of the price of peak. You can then use that energy during peak time, effectively saving 75% of the normal cost for that electricity. The link explains it.

Bendy_House

Is that your blog, PG?

I do recall reading about this idea probably a couple of years back, where the limitations of renewables were being mooted on a proper scale. It seemed pretty clear that such storage buffers would quite simply be ESSENTIAL, and a 'renewable' grid just wouldn't function without it. The idea was that ANY battery source that was plugged in would be 'fair game' for use by the grid, and that included things like your car- if it's plugged in, we can use it!

 It was all very 'Smart', of course, and algo's (don't they just exist everywhere?!) would ensure you had enough power for your own use. It did make complete sense. 
Needs a change of belief in the population, as it's initially counter-intuitive. That leccy house I mentioned, it was potentially for mil and sil (STUNNING converted village hall), and mil couldn't get her head around that 'Smart' could help themselves to 'her' leccy when they needed to. I researched and researched (long thread on an electrician's forum) to try and get a convincing argument to persuade them (tho' I wasn't even convinced myself), but they lost out to another buyer as they dragged their heels over this exact issue. What a house it would have been. But I STILL don't know how much it would cost to run, so I can't really blame them.

I think you can be confident your clever idea IS being examined, and if it's judged the best way forward - IE cheaper and smoother than having fewer LARGE batteries - then the gov'nt campaign will start. Probably initially with new builds?

[Deleted User]

My son bought one of those solar panel diy kits, he uses it to charge up his computer, phones.tablets etc, he said it works very well.

ComicGeek

The future is very much variable tariff charging, with different prices charged throughout the day to match real time peak loads. This requires the installation of smart meters in every home, which the Government has successfully bungled for years - so probably in the short term there could be some very attractive tariffs (like Octopus Go) for those who move quickly. I think those attractive tariffs will disappear once everyone has been switched to smart meters, and then the next phase starts.

As much insulation as possible, smart meter, PV and battery storage - that's the way to try and future proof, and to take advantage of any innovative tariffs coming onto the market in the short term. Longer term it will be about agile response, and batteries are the key part of this - imagine that suddenly the elec price for the next 2 hrs shoots up, and you can switch over to the battery instead.

Professional speaking, there is absolutely no joined up thinking from the Government on this - they have no strategy, no clue and often do more harm than good. People shouldn't wait around for their 'solutions'. Local councils are better equipped, so this kind of solution is best suited for them to lead. One council around here regularly does PV and battery installs for a large number of houses to reduce costs per house, and at really good rates.

Section62

PGammage said:

bris said:

It costs electricity to recharge the battery so without solar how do you recharge the battery?

You charge off peak at 25% of the price of peak. You can then use that energy during peak time, effectively saving 75% of the normal cost for that electricity. The link explains it.

People won't in reality though. Because -

1) The amount of electricity going from battery back to mains will be less than the amount you took from the mains to charge the battery (unless you also invent a 100% efficient charger/inverter)

2) The 25% figure appears to be based on the Octupus Go tariff, which isn't reflective of typical off-peak charges (e.g. the Scottish Power SVR E7 night unit rate is 44% of the day rate)

3) The 'saving' neglects all of the equipment, maintenance and replacement costs. You may be lucky and get 10 years out of the battery, but the charger/inverter is unlikely to last that long with such intensive use.

The idea of domestic battery storage may make more sense when time-of-use (TOU) tariffs are the norm, with ultra-high charges being made in the peak morning and evening hours.  Then buying in cheaper power to help get you through the 7-9am and 4-7pm peaks might make sense (notwithstanding the inefficiencies and capital/maintenance costs), but it depends on people having 'smart' type meters and on exactly what future electricity charges look like.  With a grid fed predominantly by wind and solar, the old concepts of peak and off-peak may become history.

P.s. This thread might be better moved to the 'energy' board.

Spies

I don't really understand why there isn't a grant for a small home storage battery for households because the idea can be sold as a saving to the householder whilst simultaneously relieving strain on the grid at peak times as the OP has stated.

Instead BILLIONS are being spent on creating one new nuclear power plant that won't even cover half the capacity of those that are due to be decommissioned in the next few years.

victor2

I have moved this to the energy board, where it might get more exposure and feedback.
Very interesting thoughts thus far.