Taxi passenger opened taxi door into the side of my car. Who's liable?

rajd

Hi team. 

I was driving though the notoriously narrow drop and go at Birmingham new street train station and a lady open the door of the taxi into the side of my car. It caused £600 worth of damage. To me it was clearly the passengers fault so I was asking her for her details but she had no ID to prove her address so I took her name down from a bank card and her phone number. She admitted it was her fault but that the taxi driver should have told her when to open the door... I managed to get a picture of the taxi before it drove off before I could get his details. The lady said she needed to get a train but would cover the costs. I didn't get her address but had her number and she pledged she was a "respectable person and from a good family" and she had shown me her bank card to prove her name so I accepted that and the train journey was long so didn't want her to miss it. It was an accident and she appeared to be decent. 

Fast forward a month. After initially saying she would pay for it, she has now said she doesn't want to pay anything and wants me to claim against the taxi driver. She gave me the taxi drivers number. I tried calling him to no answer but eventually he responded to a few texts. His response was aggressive and pretty disgusting but essentially said it was the passengers fault and to go after her. Along with that he would report me to the police if I contacted him again... 

Anyway, so now, I'm in a position where she's gone back on her word and I have no one's full details. I have contacted network rail and the police for the cctv and to report it. I have spoken to my insurance and stopped short of making the full claim. As soon as I pull that trigger I know I have to pay my excess, £400 and I will suffer on premiums for 5 years. I have 4 cars. 

The police have said that the taxi driving off and the passenger now refusing to play ball may constitute a crime but they have to confirm. They have crime'd it though. The CCTV will be released to the insurers and the police. 

I text the lady one more time explaining that she is still at fault and that if I put this through insurance, the cost to her will be much much higher. I even got a discount on the cost of repair. I imagine my insurance will claim against the taxi, if the taxi pays out, they will then pursue the passenger. 

What I expect is she says to go through insurance, taking the risk that the taxi insurance will just payout. Nevertheless, I find it disgusting that she expects no consequence of something that is 100% her fault. It's shameful. And even though the taxi driver is troll, he doesn't deserve it, it's not his fault. 

But what I would some help with is - who do you think is liable? What would you do? And should I just pay for the repair myself and accept that some people are horrible and dishonest. (And I should have just called the police on them in the station.) 

I am aware of the arguments that I have to notify the insurance company - this wouldn't be an issue if insurance companies weren't disgusting institutions that will charge me more for absolutely nothing. But that's another conversation. I have never once made an insurance claim on anything. 

All views and opinions welcome. 

Grumpy_chap

You can only claim against the taxi driver / company.  They may be able to claim against the passenger.  You will likely need to go through your insurance unless you have or can obtain the third party insurers directly

DB1904

rajd said:

Hi team. 

I was driving though the notoriously narrow drop and go at Birmingham new street train station and a lady open the door of the taxi into the side of my car. It caused £600 worth of damage. To me it was clearly the passengers fault so I was asking her for her details but she had no ID to prove her address so I took her name down from a bank card and her phone number. She admitted it was her fault but that the taxi driver should have told her when to open the door... I managed to get a picture of the taxi before it drove off before I could get his details. The lady said she needed to get a train but would cover the costs. I didn't get her address but had her number and she pledged she was a "respectable person and from a good family" and she had shown me her bank card to prove her name so I accepted that and the train journey was long so didn't want her to miss it. It was an accident and she appeared to be decent. 

Fast forward a month. After initially saying she would pay for it, she has now said she doesn't want to pay anything and wants me to claim against the taxi driver. She gave me the taxi drivers number. I tried calling him to no answer but eventually he responded to a few texts. His response was aggressive and pretty disgusting but essentially said it was the passengers fault and to go after her. Along with that he would report me to the police if I contacted him again... 

Anyway, so now, I'm in a position where she's gone back on her word and I have no one's full details. I have contacted network rail and the police for the cctv and to report it. I have spoken to my insurance and stopped short of making the full claim. As soon as I pull that trigger I know I have to pay my excess, £400 and I will suffer on premiums for 5 years. I have 4 cars. 

The police have said that the taxi driving off and the passenger now refusing to play ball may constitute a crime but they have to confirm. They have crime'd it though. The CCTV will be released to the insurers and the police. 

I text the lady one more time explaining that she is still at fault and that if I put this through insurance, the cost to her will be much much higher. I even got a discount on the cost of repair. I imagine my insurance will claim against the taxi, if the taxi pays out, they will then pursue the passenger. 

What I expect is she says to go through insurance, taking the risk that the taxi insurance will just payout. Nevertheless, I find it disgusting that she expects no consequence of something that is 100% her fault. It's shameful. And even though the taxi driver is troll, he doesn't deserve it, it's not his fault. 

But what I would some help with is - who do you think is liable? What would you do? And should I just pay for the repair myself and accept that some people are horrible and dishonest. (And I should have just called the police on them in the station.) 

I am aware of the arguments that I have to notify the insurance company - this wouldn't be an issue if insurance companies weren't disgusting institutions that will charge me more for absolutely nothing. But that's another conversation. I have never once made an insurance claim on anything. 

All views and opinions welcome. 

Whether you like it or not you now need to tell every insurer you have a vehicle policy with about the incident. So unless you have a multicar policy that's all four with the risk of increased premiums for the next five years. 

Seems strange that the police have crimed it but don't know if a crime has been committed or not. What offence have they recorded? Opening a door as to cause danger and fail to stop/report a collision are not offences subject to a crime report.

If neither the taxi driver or woman play ball then you either pay yourself or claim off your policy. 

Aretnap

Grumpy_chap said:

You can only claim against the taxi driver / company.  They may be able to claim against the passenger.  You will likely need to go through your insurance unless you have or can obtain the third party insurers directly

They won't be able to reclaim any costs from the passenger . Car insurance is required to provide third party cover for anyone "using" a car, not just "driving" it, so passengers are required to be covered in this situation. If you read your own car insurance policy it will likely have a clause to explicitly saying that it will cover the liabilities of anyone getting into or out of your car (ie if your passenger causes damage by opening a door, or otherwise doing something silly).

So the passenger is likely perfectly entitled to tell you to go through the taxi driver's insurance rather than putting her hand in her own pocket and no, there'll be no "consequences" for her personally. As there shouldn't be - the point of insurance is to protect you from consequences, and I'm not sure why it's so outrageous that a passenger opening a door carelessly shouldn't have to pay for damage out of her own pocket when we take it for granted that a driver who carelessly drives into you at the back of traffic lights is protected by insurance and doesn't have to pay out of his own pocket.

If you don't have the taxi 's insurance details you can get them from askmid for a token fee. If you don't like the idea of involving insurance companies, tough luck, this is what they're for. If you REALLY don' t like the idea of involving insurance companies then pay for the repairs yourself - there's no other way of forcing the issue without them getting involved. 

Car_54

DB1904 said:

rajd said:

Hi team. 

I was driving though the notoriously narrow drop and go at Birmingham new street train station and a lady open the door of the taxi into the side of my car. It caused £600 worth of damage. To me it was clearly the passengers fault so I was asking her for her details but she had no ID to prove her address so I took her name down from a bank card and her phone number. She admitted it was her fault but that the taxi driver should have told her when to open the door... I managed to get a picture of the taxi before it drove off before I could get his details. The lady said she needed to get a train but would cover the costs. I didn't get her address but had her number and she pledged she was a "respectable person and from a good family" and she had shown me her bank card to prove her name so I accepted that and the train journey was long so didn't want her to miss it. It was an accident and she appeared to be decent. 

Fast forward a month. After initially saying she would pay for it, she has now said she doesn't want to pay anything and wants me to claim against the taxi driver. She gave me the taxi drivers number. I tried calling him to no answer but eventually he responded to a few texts. His response was aggressive and pretty disgusting but essentially said it was the passengers fault and to go after her. Along with that he would report me to the police if I contacted him again... 

Anyway, so now, I'm in a position where she's gone back on her word and I have no one's full details. I have contacted network rail and the police for the cctv and to report it. I have spoken to my insurance and stopped short of making the full claim. As soon as I pull that trigger I know I have to pay my excess, £400 and I will suffer on premiums for 5 years. I have 4 cars. 

The police have said that the taxi driving off and the passenger now refusing to play ball may constitute a crime but they have to confirm. They have crime'd it though. The CCTV will be released to the insurers and the police. 

I text the lady one more time explaining that she is still at fault and that if I put this through insurance, the cost to her will be much much higher. I even got a discount on the cost of repair. I imagine my insurance will claim against the taxi, if the taxi pays out, they will then pursue the passenger. 

What I expect is she says to go through insurance, taking the risk that the taxi insurance will just payout. Nevertheless, I find it disgusting that she expects no consequence of something that is 100% her fault. It's shameful. And even though the taxi driver is troll, he doesn't deserve it, it's not his fault. 

But what I would some help with is - who do you think is liable? What would you do? And should I just pay for the repair myself and accept that some people are horrible and dishonest. (And I should have just called the police on them in the station.) 

I am aware of the arguments that I have to notify the insurance company - this wouldn't be an issue if insurance companies weren't disgusting institutions that will charge me more for absolutely nothing. But that's another conversation. I have never once made an insurance claim on anything. 

All views and opinions welcome. 

Opening a door as to cause danger and fail to stop/report a collision are not offences subject to a crime report.

Under what legislation?

TooManyPoints

Under what legislation?

I was going to ask the same question. The latter has a maximum penalty of six months' custody, so I imagine the police would want to record the allegation somehow.

rajd

Thanks for the response so far. Really useful to have people to talk to about this. 

Aretnap said:

Grumpy_chap said:

You can only claim against the taxi driver / company.  They may be able to claim against the passenger.  You will likely need to go through your insurance unless you have or can obtain the third party insurers directly

They won't be able to reclaim any costs from the passenger . Car insurance is required to provide third party cover for anyone "using" a car, not just "driving" it, so passengers are required to be covered in this situation. If you read your own car insurance policy it will likely have a clause to explicitly saying that it will cover the liabilities of anyone getting into or out of your car (ie if your passenger causes damage by opening a door, or otherwise doing something silly).

So the passenger is likely perfectly entitled to tell you to go through the taxi driver's insurance rather than putting her hand in her own pocket and no, there'll be no "consequences" for her personally. As there shouldn't be - the point of insurance is to protect you from consequences, and I'm not sure why it's so outrageous that a passenger opening a door carelessly shouldn't have to pay for damage out of her own pocket when we take it for granted that a driver who carelessly drives into you at the back of traffic lights is protected by insurance and doesn't have to pay out of his own pocket.

If you don't have the taxi 's insurance details you can get them from askmid for a token fee. If you don't like the idea of involving insurance companies, tough luck, this is what they're for. If you REALLY don' t like the idea of involving insurance companies then pay for the repairs yourself - there's no other way of forcing the issue without them getting involved. 

I'm really surprised that anyone would think there shouldn't be consequences for the passenger. If she had insurance that covered her for accidents, then by all means, that insurance can pay on her behalf. But ultimately had she not done something, neither me nor the taxi would ever have crossed paths. 

In a car accident, both parties have insurance (usually) so the insurance kicks in. No problem. I have been told that some home insurance can cover individuals for this type of thing. 

Perhaps I'm being too idealistic that someone who makes a mistake, should be made responsible for it. Not that two innocent people should suffer for their carelessness. 

Insurance - I don't like the idea of involving the insurance company in this instance because she said she would pay for it. Also that playing this out, this is £600 worth of damage. My excess is £400 which I won't get back. So for £200, I'm going through all this stress and impacting my premiums and the taxi drivers premiums, and their excess. I potentially lose my no claims and it would be the first insurance claim (except pets) in 17 years of driving. All because of this stupid woman. Sorry, I just think that is unfair. 

rajd

Given the situation - What would each of you do? 

shiraz99

Wasn't there some court case a while back where someone alighting from a taxi caused serious injury, possibly death, to a cyclist and was found criminally liable, or possibly was it the taxi driver?

Edit, I'm not sure if this is the one I was thinking about but it is similar - https://road.cc/content/news/218451-taxi-passenger-pleads-guilty-fatally-dooring-cyclist-and-receives-£80-fine

Thrugelmir

Your insurance company is there to deal with the matter. Not reporting it sooner will do you no favours. 

Car_54

shiraz99 said:

Wasn't there some court case a while back where someone alighting from a taxi caused serious injury, possibly death, to a cyclist and was found criminally liable, or possibly was it the taxi driver?

Edit, I'm not sure if this is the one I was thinking about but it is similar - https://road.cc/content/news/218451-taxi-passenger-pleads-guilty-fatally-dooring-cyclist-and-receives-£80-fine

The law says "No person shall open, or cause or permit to be opened, any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person".
So both have committed a criminal offence, and both could be held responsible in a civil action.