Private parking ticket issued on land not owned by the property!

WesAslan

@Jenni_D Please kindly have a look at these two links if you have time: 

Thanks a lot!

Final argument which will be submitted to the IAS: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n-05s7BYaHEva_4Rgt_tFIu6QEZZw2iu/edit

Land Registry of Clare Court: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HSokO7PXZEkwcQbVZnpEagVz26Z3K-PZ/view

Coupon-mad

Debt Recovery Plus aren't a legal firm!  PPCs are allowed to pass (legitimately obtained) data to a debt chaser load of time-wasters like DRP and/or to a legal firm in contemplation of court proceedings.  

DRP are the former. A waste of space. Did you miss reading the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread?

Snakes_Belly

Snakes_Belly said:

https://www.enfield.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/5465/list-of-adopted-highways-and-private-roads-roads.pdf

Clare Court is not a private road it is publicly maintained. It is on the first list of public roads and highways page (43). 

There are no double yellow lines.  

Clare Court is on the list above under adopted highways. (List of Current Highway Maintainable at Public Expense).

It was mentioned on a previous post that some work was done to a tree by the council.

WesAslan

@Snakes_Belly The council is giving misleading statements, they are issuing this but at the same time saying no it is not public. They said in their final response that the road is "unadopted" and not maintained at public expense- I'm not sure exactly what that means, so is it not owned by anyone?

@Trainerman The plot is not owned by any properties nearby. I bought all of their title deeds. 

@Coupon-mad Shall I not contact the debt recovery company for a SAR. I threw all their letters unfortunately.  

Trainerman

See my comment earlier today about unadopted. It means that the council are not responsible for surfacing and so on. In those situations, the standard form is that if the council have to step in and repair it because it is dangerous, they then bill each homeowner for all their frontage and half the width. 

Would that mean that although not in their title, a particular house would have all the frontage where you park, and half the width of the road?

WesAslan

@Trainerman I have the registry plan for all the properties, I'll post them below, none have a frontage that large. The part tinted brown indicates right of way/easement. 

Per the registry of 825: The land has the benefit of but is subject to the rights granted by a

Deed dated 12 April 1984 made between (1) 825

(2) National Counties Building Society (3)xxxxx (4)xxxx (5) xxxx (6)

xxxxx (7) xxxx (8) Abbey National

Building Society (9) xxxxx

(10) The Mayor and Burgesses of the London Borough of Enfield and (11)

xxxxx.

The xxxxs are names I have removed for privacy - I don't know who they are but yes. 

Clare court's land registry fits well with the one for 825, as in the brown part is excluded from clare courts registry. It is also in all the registries for 811-825. In both registries, clare court is very apparently and consistently outside of the place where I parked (within the brown zone). 

Per the registry of CC; The land tinted blue on the filed plan is subject to rights of way in

favour of the owners and occupiers of 811, 813, 815, 817, 819, 821,

823, 825 and 827 Hertford Road and all other persons having a like

right.

So in conclusion, the brown part is not the same as the blue part. 

 

 

Trainerman

If I have it right, No 825 seems to have a long garden behind it, facing Clare Court, and you are parking somewhere along that garden wall.

That garden forms part of their frontage, and you are parking on that, I think, for what that is worth

Put another way, if Clare Court owned that road, it would actually be a private road. They do not, so the boundary has to be down the middle I think. I do not know how that helps except to say you may well have a case in Court. Making a PPC listen is a different matter

fisherjim

Maybe you need to widen your investigations:

If you look on Enfield's planning portal Clare Court has been around for a long time and there were a host of planning applications made around 1948 some passed some declined, but the planning portal is not historically completed only headline titles I think it only goes back to the early 80s.

Therefore a trip to the town hall/planning office might bear fruit?

The road is unadopted, probably meaning that the developer never applied for or was refused that by the council at the time or maybe there was a dispute over ownership who knows.

However it seems that someone has paid for it to be tarmacked and maintained it could not have survived in that state since 1948, and the owners of the houses to the right have access rights but from who.

There are companies that do local searches on this kind of thing (conveyancing solicitors use them they don't do it them selves) e.g:  https://www.homeriskreports.co.uk/default

WesAslan

@Trainerman Exactly I'm parking next to the garden of 825, there is a pavement there which connects to the pavement of the main road Hertford Road. 

Ps. all the properties 811-825 have that brown tint on their plan. 

They would have to take me to court right? And I have no idea when that will be or after how many tickets. So the risk on me increases exponentially, actually it is better for them to wait and put a ticket everyday for the next x years and then take me because the reward is larger, and if they know this and are doing it... I believe this is a crime in itself. Because if they take me now and they win, I clearly wouldn't park their again incurring more charges, so they would be loosing money in the long run. 

I can take them to court for the first ticket on my car where they illegally obtained my details, which seems the route I will go as they were breaching data protection. 

WesAslan

@fisherjim Thanks for your response. Indeed I saw planning applications but they had no detail. Maybe clare court tarmacked the road however it is apparent they only own one half. 

I'm not sure who granted the access rights, on the deed dated 1984 there plethora of names of individuals/two banks, one of name is the owner of 825. The Mayor and Burgesses of the London Borough of Enfield is also on there, I emailed the mayor of Enfield couple of days ago, awaiting his reply. 

I'm not sure if I should mail the registry and make them perform a search of the index map to see if the plot is registered. 

The company you mentioned as a lot of options which is confusing me, I'll message them too see what they say.