Is RTS Economy 7 meter going to stop working?

coffeehound

Gerry1 said:

The Radio Teleswitch would lose the facility to stagger the start and finish times, but most domestic RTS consumers are on a fixed schedule that doesn't use this facility.

I think the 7.5 minute tolerance on start/end time is a characteristic of the messaging system, so even the non-dynamic tariffs would still exhibit that

Gerry1

coffeehound said:

Gerry1 said:

All that would happen for most domestic consumers is that their teleswitch would behave like a rotary motorised timeswitch (silver and black disk).

That sounds sensible.  I knew the signal carried a time signature but hadn't considered an internal clock was used.  I wonder how well they would keep time once free running?

Probably a lot better than the clockwork ones !  Several forumites have reported that their rotary timeswitches are hours adrift.

If a free running RTS clock drifted by a minute per year, it would be 15 years before it was out of the +/-15 minutes switching tolerance.

QrizB

Gerry1 said:

@coffeehound That's just ignorant scaremongering by energy companies who should know better.  No one will end up with their "electricity meter jammed on the last rate it was on before the signal died, prevent your heating/hot water from turning on properly or leave the heating/hot water jammed on 24/7" the way that Ovo shamefully threaten.  Did this happen when Droitwich aerials suffered storm damage?  Of course not !

Back in the nationalised days my parents' E7 timeswitch did get stuck.

In the E7 position.

For something like four years before SWEB realised the meter readings were unusal.

I don't think they ever tried a catch up bill, but they did eventually fix/replace the switch!

Gerry1

QrizB said:

Gerry1 said:

@coffeehound That's just ignorant scaremongering by energy companies who should know better.  No one will end up with their "electricity meter jammed on the last rate it was on before the signal died, prevent your heating/hot water from turning on properly or leave the heating/hot water jammed on 24/7" the way that Ovo shamefully threaten.  Did this happen when Droitwich aerials suffered storm damage?  Of course not !

Back in the nationalised days my parents' E7 timeswitch did get stuck.

In the E7 position.

Bet it wasn't a Radio Teleswitch !

jrawle

All I know is that m E7 started at precisely 23:30 each night, to the second.

This is a great article that explains how the switches work, and how the data is encoded:

http://alancordwell.co.uk/Legacy/radio/teleswitch1.html

So there is a microprocessor that maintains a real time clock. However, there's no mention of a backup battery. In that case, once the signal is switched off, the timeswitches would be completely off following a power cut. (At present, the time would be corrected within a minute of power being restored.)

While I would normally agree that the companies are all too keen to scare people into having smart meters, in this case I think the timeswitches will be useless once the signal is ended.

QrizB

Gerry1 said:

QrizB said:

Gerry1 said:

@coffeehound That's just ignorant scaremongering by energy companies who should know better.  No one will end up with their "electricity meter jammed on the last rate it was on before the signal died, prevent your heating/hot water from turning on properly or leave the heating/hot water jammed on 24/7" the way that Ovo shamefully threaten.  Did this happen when Droitwich aerials suffered storm damage?  Of course not !

Back in the nationalised days my parents' E7 timeswitch did get stuck.

In the E7 position.

Bet it wasn't a Radio Teleswitch !

Probably not; my 40-year-ago memory says it looked a bit like this (not my photo):

Gerry1

jrawle said:

This is a great article that explains how the switches work, and how the data is encoded:

http://alancordwell.co.uk/Legacy/radio/teleswitch1.html

As posted five hours ago...

jrawle said:

So there is a microprocessor that maintains a real time clock. However, there's no mention of a backup battery. In that case, once the signal is switched off, the timeswitches would be completely off following a power cut. (At present, the time would be corrected within a minute of power being restored.)

While I would normally agree that the companies are all too keen to scare people into having smart meters, in this case I think the timeswitches will be useless once the signal is ended.

Wrong again.  My Radio Teleswitch has always remained accurate whenever Droitwich has gone off the air.

coffeehound

Gerry1 said:

coffeehound said:

Gerry1 said:

All that would happen for most domestic consumers is that their teleswitch would behave like a rotary motorised timeswitch (silver and black disk).

That sounds sensible.  I knew the signal carried a time signature but hadn't considered an internal clock was used.  I wonder how well they would keep time once free running?

Probably a lot better than the clockwork ones !  Several forumites have reported that their rotary timeswitches are hours adrift.

If a free running RTS clock drifted by a minute per year, it would be 15 years before it was out of the +/-15 minutes switching tolerance.

It was text from the british standard that said the switching tolerance must be +/- 7.5 mins, so is that where the 15 minute window figure comes from?  Or maybe that is in addition.  Wheels within wheels..

Gerry1

coffeehound said:

Gerry1 said:

coffeehound said:

Gerry1 said:

All that would happen for most domestic consumers is that their teleswitch would behave like a rotary motorised timeswitch (silver and black disk).

That sounds sensible.  I knew the signal carried a time signature but hadn't considered an internal clock was used.  I wonder how well they would keep time once free running?

Probably a lot better than the clockwork ones !  Several forumites have reported that their rotary timeswitches are hours adrift.

If a free running RTS clock drifted by a minute per year, it would be 15 years before it was out of the +/-15 minutes switching tolerance.

It was text from the british standard that said the switching tolerance must be +/- 7.5 mins, so is that where the 15 minute window figure comes from?  Or maybe that is in addition.  Wheels within wheels..

The label on my Radio Teleswitch says 'Accuracy ± 15 Minutes'.

MWT

The reality of all this though is that there will be an aggressive program of meter replacement once they do settle on a final date as even though the meters should keep running, they will effectively be in a failure mode and that will not be acceptable as a 'normal' mode of operation.