Is RTS Economy 7 meter going to stop working?

jrawle

jimexbox said:

My E7 meter isn't rts. So the cheap time changes depending if its gmt or bst. 

I had E7 in my previous flat, controlled by a teleswitch. The cheap rate always started at 23:30 GMT. There was no change for BST, so the cheap rate started an hour later in the summer.

My understanding is that the broadcast signal tells meters to switch at that moment. I didn't think they contain a clock at all; it isn't like an MSF watch or wall clock that sets its clock once a day, but runs on quartz otherwise. I could be wrong about this, but if not, such switches will not work at all once the signal stops.

While trying to read up on this, it seems the date is 1 April 2023, though, not 2022.

Fortunately I no longer live in an E7 property. If I did, I would try to get a smart meter well in advance of this change, particularly as smart meters that have the separate, switched E7 output are apparently hard to come by.

Gerry1

jrawle said:

jimexbox said:

My E7 meter isn't rts. So the cheap time changes depending if its gmt or bst. 

My understanding is that the broadcast signal tells meters to switch at that moment. I didn't think they contain a clock at all; it isn't like an MSF watch or wall clock that sets its clock once a day, but runs on quartz otherwise. I could be wrong about this, but if not, such switches will not work at all once the signal stops.

Yes, you are completely wrong.  Obviously it can't work as you suggest: the rate would not change if Radio 4 Long Wave went off the air because of planned maintenance, aerial damage or technical failure.  It would also allow permanent cheap rate for fraudsters who would only have to screen the teleswitch.

RomfordNavy

So how does the broadcast signal work, what RF frequency is it on, does it just change a constant tone or something to trigger the switch to/from low rate?

Gerry1

RomfordNavy said:

So how does the broadcast signal work

Phase Shift Keying

RomfordNavy said:

what RF frequency is it on

198kHz Long Wave, 1514 metres

RomfordNavy said:

does it just change a constant tone or something to trigger the switch to/from low rate?

No, data messages

Radio Teleswitch Description

Radio Teleswitch – (ENA)

coffeehound

I think jrawle is right that there is no clock in old spinning disc meters.  Hopefully the teleswitch signal will continue to be supported until the smart meter installation programme has got its act together . .

MWT

coffeehound said:

I think jrawle is right that there is no clock in old spinning disc meters.  Hopefully the teleswitch signal will continue to be supported until the smart meter installation programme has got its act together . .

There is no clock in the meter, that is not in doubt, there is however a clock in the teleswitch, there has to be as the normal mode of operation for the whole teleswitch system is to pre-programme the switches for their planned switching schedule ahead of time.

The system does not normally send instructions for immediate execution, but it is possible to do that in emergency situations such as an urgent need for load-shedding for example.

 

coffeehound

I've had a google, and the energy companies seem to think the switching will stop working once the signal ends, e.g.

All of these meters are legacy types which are no longer installed by any supplier today. The shutdown of the RTS service would mean that the teleswitching features would completely stop working, which could in theory leave your electricity meter jammed on the last rate it was on before the signal died, prevent your heating/hot water from turning on properly or leave the heating/hot water jammed on 24/7. 

In March 2023 RTS meters will lose their functionality. This is because the radio teleswitch that controls the meters will be switched off. This may affect some homes where the electrical circuits may not switch on electric heating systems once the service is turned off. It may also affect the meter's ability to record usage correctly against the peak and off peak rate.

The meters shown below are controlled by a radio signal to switch between peak and off-peak times and control hot water and heating.

The radio signal, known as the Radio Teleswitch Service (RTS), is planned to be turned off. When this happens, the affected meters will no longer work correctly.

Our support for these meters will end soon. If you have one, we'll be in touch to arrange a meter and tariff upgrade to keep your heating and hot water working.

One reference said the time signal is due to end "by December 2023"

lohr500

Given the rate of smart meter installation (particularly for those who need a 5 wire meter or external contactor to support E7) I suspect Auntie Beeb will have to continue broadcasting the long wave signal for some considerable time!!!  

Gerry1

@coffeehound That's just ignorant scaremongering by energy companies who should know better.  No one will end up with their "electricity meter jammed on the last rate it was on before the signal died, prevent your heating/hot water from turning on properly or leave the heating/hot water jammed on 24/7" the way that Ovo shamefully threaten.  Did this happen when Droitwich aerials suffered storm damage?  Of course not !

They're just trying to frighten people into having smart meters.

All that would happen for most domestic consumers is that their teleswitch would behave like a rotary motorised timeswitch (silver and black disk).

The Radio Teleswitch would lose the facility to stagger the start and finish times, but most domestic RTS consumers are on a fixed schedule that doesn't use this facility.

coffeehound

Gerry1 said:

All that would happen for most domestic consumers is that their teleswitch would behave like a rotary motorised timeswitch (silver and black disk).

That sounds sensible.  I knew the signal carried a time signature but hadn't considered an internal clock was used.  I wonder how well they would keep time once free running?