Fence repair responsibilities

Dr_Dr

My daughter recently purchased a house where the boundary fence with the neighbouring house has
almost disappeared. There is little evidence of where posts were but there is a single strand of wire which must have been the boundary, however it it not complete. The likely area is all very overgrown. I am fairly certain that this boundary belongs to my neighbour (but I will verify before I approach him).
I read in an earlier post that the owner of a boundary fence is not legally responsible for maintaining it. Is that the case? I would like the fence reinstated.

[Deleted User]

Hi,

you could put your own new fence up within your boundary.

victor2

Many years ago when we purchased our house, we already knew the boundary fence we were responsible for consisted of nothing more than diseased fruit trees. Before we even had chance to do something about it, the neighbour told us she'd been to see her solicitor about enforcing us to replace it. Our solicitor (who turned out to be the same as hers, and therefore couldn't represent either party) just told us all we legally needed was a bit of string between a few sticks to mark the boundary.

We replaced it with a decent fence with concrete posts anyway, as planned. Got along fine with the neighbours after that!

Section62

Dr_Dr said:

I read in an earlier post that the owner of a boundary fence is not legally responsible for maintaining it. Is that the case? I would like the fence reinstated.

It depends what it says in the deeds, there may be a requirement to provide and maintain.  Also, legal action may result if someone fails to maintain their fence/wall/hedge and it causes damage/injury to others.

TELLIT01

Unless the deeds specify that the boundary line must be clearly marked and maintained it will be very difficult to force the neighbour to reinstate the fence even if the deeds show that boundary to be the responsibility of the neighbour.  The simplest solution, as it would seem the neighbour has no interest in maintaining the fence, would be to erect a fence just inside the daughter's property line.  It will mean losing a few inches of usable garden but at least they will know who is responsible for maintenance.

Bendy_House

Dr_Dr, bearing in mind everything said above, can I suggest you do get yourself fully informed first, and then consider a few options open to you, so you are pre-armed for every eventuality? Then 'approach' the neighb in a most friendly manner.

Check your own deeds - does that say anything about 'having' to maintain a fence/boundary? Or is it the usual 'T' marked out on the map, with the implication of 'responsibility'? That is not enforceable...

Chances are it's the latter, so it'll then be the case that you cannot oblige the neighbour to put up a fence.

You also have the potential issue of where this boundary is located. You say it's overgrown, and you say there's a wire there in places, but not all? According to your deeds, is the boundary shown as being 'straight'? Does it seem very likely that the 'wire' - such as it is - is at least an accurate indicator? Is there anything closer to the house, or at the bottom of the garden, to indicate an accurate starting point? For example, if there is a garage or outbuilding there and also shown on the deeds, where is the boundary in relation to this?

Armed with this info, a 'helpful' approach to the neighb to discuss what to do to your mutual benefit would be best. They might be equally fed up about the overgrown areas, and would welcome a joint effort to clear it - this might be all the incentive they need. If they don't seem too bothered, or moan about the amount of work or the cost, then perhaps have in reserve a "Well, if we clear the area and agree on the boundary line, I'd be happy to go halves on the cost of 'your' fence..."

If there is next to zero positive response, then it'll likely be that you just need to clear your area, and fit your fence on your side of the line.

Dr_Dr

Well thanks to you all for your input. I will try to answer some of the questions.
The boundary is shown as a straight line on her land registry document. There is no ‘T’. There is a ‘T’ on the opposite boundary, which is why I thought it likely to belong to the other neighbour, although I know that is not conclusive.
we would of course make every attempt to resolve the issue amicably.
I did not want to over complicate the issue by saying why the boundary line is important.
There is a very very tall and substantial tree which is dead. It could be on either side of the boundary, although I am fairly certain it is on the neighbours side. It will cost a lot to have removed. If it fell it could destroy my daughters summer house nearby. As I understand it, if the neighbour has been informed of a dangerous tree within his boundary, then it is his responsibility to remove the tree.
since posting my blog I have been in the garden trying to locate old fence posts. I have found several, but they are all wood, very rotten and laying down, a couple still have the wire attached. My plan is to make a probe to see if the posts were concreted in, which could help establish the line.
Nothing is simple!

TELLIT01

Unfortunately, tracing the line of the old posts doesn't prove they were on the actual boundary.  A previous occupant of your daughters house may have had the same problem with neighbours and constructed a fence on their ground.

Bendy_House

Dr_Dr said:

Well thanks to you all for your input. I will try to answer some of the questions.
The boundary is shown as a straight line on her land registry document. There is no ‘T’. There is a ‘T’ on the opposite boundary, which is why I thought it likely to belong to the other neighbour, although I know that is not conclusive.
we would of course make every attempt to resolve the issue amicably.
I did not want to over complicate the issue by saying why the boundary line is important.
There is a very very tall and substantial tree which is dead. It could be on either side of the boundary, although I am fairly certain it is on the neighbours side. It will cost a lot to have removed. If it fell it could destroy my daughters summer house nearby. As I understand it, if the neighbour has been informed of a dangerous tree within his boundary, then it is his responsibility to remove the tree.
since posting my blog I have been in the garden trying to locate old fence posts. I have found several, but they are all wood, very rotten and laying down, a couple still have the wire attached. My plan is to make a probe to see if the posts were concreted in, which could help establish the line.
Nothing is simple!

As Teller says, if you think the agreed line is going to be at all contentious (tho' I presume you don't yet know if it will be), then you may need more concrete proof than just, er, concrete.

Are there no 'landmarks' that can guide the boundary? 

This tree is obviously very close to where the boundary is, and could POSSIBLY be on either side, or even straddling it. Chances are it WILL be on ONE side, and good chance - from what you say - it's the neighb's. But you currently cannot be certain. So, as before, fully inform yourself of the options beforehand, and the sorts of outcomes you are 'happy' to possibly compromise on.

I mean, you COULD simply pay for a land surveyor - no idea how much they charge - and, if it turns out that you were correct, 'put' the neighb 'on notice' of the damage/harm that could be caused by their dead tree if/when it falls. That's the full-on approach, obviously, so also have a series of negotiations/compromises you are prepared to fall back on. "Tell you what, if you get rid of your tree before it falls, I'll go halves on the new fence, even tho' it isn't my responsibility either. Bear in mind that we both know the tree is dead, so if it falls and causes damage, the owner - pretty sure it's you - is liable..." or words to that effect.

If all you get is a belligerent response, then you may just have to go 'full'.

Do you have 'responsibility' 'T's marked on your other boundary? If yes, then that adds to the suggestion the overgrown boundary is your neighs (tho' not writ in stone), but if 'no' - if by a miracle you don't have any boundaries - then I think you should be more inclined to assist in the resolution.

Dr_Dr

Well this problem is ongoing.
In the winter of 2022  the inevitable happened. A large branch from the dead tree fell through the roof and floor of my daughter's summer house causing a significant amount of damage. She approached the neighbour who accepted full responsibility and said he would get someone in to fix it.
Sure enough, someone came although i would call him a diy person rather than a builder. He did fix the roof although the tiles were a completely different colour. It was at least watertight.
He said he would return in the spring to fix the floor. My daughter did not incur any costs. The chap said the tree should come down as it could be a danger.
My daughter contacted this person again in the summer of 2023 as he had not turned up as promised. I assume this might be because the neighbour was not living there. My daughter tried to contact him but received no reply.
Since then other branches from the tree have fallen into her garden but without causing damage.
The summer house has been unusable throughout because of the floor.
The dead tree remains.
The owner is now off the radar and the house is advertised as an airbnb. We have been unable to contact the owner and the manager of the airbnb company will not provide any further contact information.

twopenny

Keep a record of your attempts to contact the neighbour and place the fallen branches back on his land as he has suggested it is his.

I would never suggest that you ensure any more dead wood should be released and returned.

I'd get the ground cleared and put a fence in only just your side of the boundary and record that somewhere for future sale..

That would give your daughter protection from the randoms that come on Airbnb with an absent landlord.

Sometimes you just have to keep within the law while protecting yourself.