ASHP v oil as of April 22

shinytop

Starting from scratch and if you qualify for the £5k grant, with a modern, well designed ASHP system there probably isn't, and won't be, much in it.  It's quite easy to mess up with a heat pump though, less so with a fossil fuel boiler.

OTOH my neighbour ran out of oil a few weeks ago and couldn't get any for 2 weeks.  Unless things get really bad I doubt the power will be off for that long. 

Rodders53

Isecret-stu said:

Rodders53 said:

1960s bungalow.  Poorly insulated flat roofs and loft spaces.  FIX THOSE FIRST.  

The money spent will save energy no matter what the source.

Then the 'new heating system' needs clarification so the install costs can be estimated accurately ... what's there now to heat the building and provide hot water?

No heating at present ,hot water via a hot water tank with electric immersion  .

In that case it is definitely insulation / draught proof (and possibly DG window) improvements first.  Then you'll need to have room heat loss/gain calculations done to size the heat emitters and overall energy requirements.

Then you need lifestyle considerations.  Home all day or out working most days. 

The former works well with matelodave's ASHP and overlay UFH solution for him.  It's been installed for many years.

Another HP user here has over-sized (for oil/gas) radiators to work with the low flow temperatures and seems happy enough over this last winter.

Oil CH (or bulk LPG even) for a complete new install (tank, tank base, boiler, pipework, controls, radiators/ufh pipes, unvented HW cylinder etc.,.) won't necessarily be significantly cheaper than an ASHP install but the only way to find out is by getting competitive quotes from a number of suppliers. 

Good luck.  Keep reading. It's likely a steep learning curve.

ispookie666

You could look into Multi split AC as an alternate option.  As a bonus you can get cooling 
They do qualify for VAT @ 0%
@lohr500 Not convinced OPEC+ will increase output.  Their economies took a beating during the Oil price crash at the start of lockdown.  Why on earth would they knowingly increase output and make the price of oil fall?  Unlikely US will be able to increase Shale oil output like the other Oil producers.  The price is going to remain static till Putin carves out Ukraine and will bargain for lifting of sanctions at the same time.  

QrizB

ispookie666 said:

The price is going to remain static till Putin carves out Ukraine ...  

OTOH the price is down 5% today due to a COVID outbreak in Shanghai.

Not everything is about Russia or Europe.

danrv

ispookie666 said:

You could look into Multi split AC as an alternate option.  As a bonus you can get cooling  

I have multi split AC in my three bed semi detached property.
Not very expensive to run, quick to heat/cool and installation would be far less than a HP wet system.
Good idea to address the room insulation first though.

Cardew

danrv said:

ispookie666 said:

You could look into Multi split AC as an alternate option.  As a bonus you can get cooling  

I have multi split AC in my three bed semi detached property.
Not very expensive to run, quick to heat/cool and installation would be far less than a HP wet system.
Good idea to address the room insulation first though.

Agreed, but you don't get any government subsidy for an Air to Air Heat Pump(A/C)

danrv

Cardew said:

danrv said:

ispookie666 said:

You could look into Multi split AC as an alternate option.  As a bonus you can get cooling  

I have multi split AC in my three bed semi detached property.
Not very expensive to run, quick to heat/cool and installation would be far less than a HP wet system.
Good idea to address the room insulation first though.

Agreed, but you don't get any government subsidy for an Air to Air Heat Pump(A/C)

True. My installation was around £6900 but would probably be less for a bungalow.
Depends on layout, number of rooms, inverter capacity needed etc.
Also what type of heating the OP is looking for, wet or dry.

QrizB

danrv said:

Cardew said:

danrv said:

ispookie666 said:

You could look into Multi split AC as an alternate option.  As a bonus you can get cooling  

I have multi split AC in my three bed semi detached property.
Not very expensive to run, quick to heat/cool and installation would be far less than a HP wet system.
Good idea to address the room insulation first though.

Agreed, but you don't get any government subsidy for an Air to Air Heat Pump(A/C)

True. My installation was around £6900 but would probably be less for a bungalow.

With an install cost of £7k and tomorrow's current electricity prices, assuming a COP of 3 and an annual heat demand of 10000kWh it should pay for itself in 6 years even without a grant.
And multi splits are rated to deliver a higher COP than that.

ispookie666

@QrizB Not sure about the better COP for multi split. I'm in the process of getting a 7.1KW Mitsubishi (its not a multisplit) but the COP/SCOP/SEER is lower compared to the smaller size units.  The sweet spot seems to be 2.5 to 3.5KW units.  

One thing to note about Multi splits - all the indoor units will have to be on the same heating mode (if they are working).  You cannot have heating in one unit and cooling in the other.  

markin

You can get Panasonic single units heat pumps starting from £1K, With a ground floor install you should be able to get 2 or 3 installed for around 4K

Using oil for the hot water and -10 cold snaps would still be the cheapest way probably, unless you want to heat it with electric and spend 4-5K on Solar PV