My obsession with not buying in UK - Prove me wrong

lookstraightahead

MobileSaver said:

lookstraightahead said:

We are early fifties and probably just as well off as someone who has owned property all their lives.

While there are always exceptions, it's hard to see how that can be true for the vast majority of people.

All other things being equal, monthly rental payments will always be more than your own mortgage payments since your landlord won't get as competitive a rate as a home-owner and typically will be making a profit on top anyway. And of course after "renting for ages" it's the home-owner/landlord who will have benefited from HPI while you walk away with nothing.

lookstraightahead said:

We rented for ages and I'm glad we didn't throw our businesses down the drain just to tick the right boxes for a mortgage.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? I was running my own business when I took out the mortgage that I paid off 15 years later.

lookstraightahead said:

you don't have to own a property to feel secure, ... Lots of people don't want to be at the beck and call of a landlord, we didn't want to be at the beck and call of an employer.

I just don't think that's true; as a tenant you will be reminded every six or twelve months that you have to agree to new terms if you want to stay in your property - I'm not sure that instils security when you know one day you might receive a S8 or S21 instead of an invitation to renew.

I mean that security doesn't need to be in the form of a property. You need your own property to feel secure, but security comes in many guises for others. Property ownership is just not important to some people. 

You can't always equate financial success to property ownership. You can rent but be earning millions. Why do you even need to own if you earn millions? 

MobileSaver

lookstraightahead said:

Property ownership is just not important to some people. 

You can't always equate financial success to property ownership. You can rent but be earning millions. Why do you even need to own if you earn millions? 

As I said there are always exceptions but I'm sure you accept that all other things being equal someone paying their own mortgage will be financially better off in most cases than someone paying their landlord's mortgage - how can it be any other way?

Property ownership per se may not be important to some people but family stability and security is important to practically everyone and owning your own property is one obvious way of achieving that.

Whether you are earning minimum wage or millions, being forced to leave your own home against your will be something most people would want to avoid at all costs so given a choice (and the millionaire is more likely to have that choice) it's pretty obvious why someone would want to own.

Sistergold

If getting a deposit is not a problem and one knows they will be staying in that location for years so no plans to move then it’s difficult to understand why buying will be such a disadvantage? For similar figures renting vs buying you pay the same BUT with buying some of it is repayment? 

BOTH Reuters and in mortgage BEEN to plan for job/business loss. 

lookstraightahead

MobileSaver said:

lookstraightahead said:

Property ownership is just not important to some people. 

You can't always equate financial success to property ownership. You can rent but be earning millions. Why do you even need to own if you earn millions? 

As I said there are always exceptions but I'm sure you accept that all other things being equal someone paying their own mortgage will be financially better off in most cases than someone paying their landlord's mortgage - how can it be any other way?

Property ownership per se may not be important to some people but family stability and security is important to practically everyone and owning your own property is one obvious way of achieving that.

Whether you are earning minimum wage or millions, being forced to leave your own home against your will be something most people would want to avoid at all costs so given a choice (and the millionaire is more likely to have that choice) it's pretty obvious why someone would want to own.

No I don't agree. I don't place such emphasis on property ownership in my life. Sorry 🤷‍♀️

MobileSaver

lookstraightahead said:

MobileSaver said:

As I said there are always exceptions but I'm sure you accept that all other things being equal someone paying their own mortgage will be financially better off in most cases than someone paying their landlord's mortgage - how can it be any other way?

Property ownership per se may not be important to some people but family stability and security is important to practically everyone and owning your own property is one obvious way of achieving that.

Whether you are earning minimum wage or millions, being forced to leave your own home against your will be something most people would want to avoid at all costs so given a choice (and the millionaire is more likely to have that choice) it's pretty obvious why someone would want to own.

No I don't agree. I don't place such emphasis on property ownership in my life. Sorry 🤷‍♀️

And yet you own your own property...

lookstraightahead

MobileSaver said:

lookstraightahead said:

MobileSaver said:

As I said there are always exceptions but I'm sure you accept that all other things being equal someone paying their own mortgage will be financially better off in most cases than someone paying their landlord's mortgage - how can it be any other way?

Property ownership per se may not be important to some people but family stability and security is important to practically everyone and owning your own property is one obvious way of achieving that.

Whether you are earning minimum wage or millions, being forced to leave your own home against your will be something most people would want to avoid at all costs so given a choice (and the millionaire is more likely to have that choice) it's pretty obvious why someone would want to own.

No I don't agree. I don't place such emphasis on property ownership in my life. Sorry 🤷‍♀️

And yet you own your own property...

So what? I own 6 pairs of jeans as well but they don't make me feel secure. They don't make me happier either. Except one pair that were a real bargain that I got a really good reduction for in a sale (can't believe how much people pay for jeans 🤣)

MobileSaver

lookstraightahead said:

MobileSaver said:

lookstraightahead said:

MobileSaver said:

As I said there are always exceptions but I'm sure you accept that all other things being equal someone paying their own mortgage will be financially better off in most cases than someone paying their landlord's mortgage - how can it be any other way?

Property ownership per se may not be important to some people but family stability and security is important to practically everyone and owning your own property is one obvious way of achieving that.

Whether you are earning minimum wage or millions, being forced to leave your own home against your will be something most people would want to avoid at all costs so given a choice (and the millionaire is more likely to have that choice) it's pretty obvious why someone would want to own.

No I don't agree. I don't place such emphasis on property ownership in my life. Sorry 🤷‍♀️

And yet you own your own property...

they don't make me feel secure.

I think you must be using a different definition of "secure" to most other people; in the context of house buying and renting it is shorthand for "security of tenure". What do you mean by secure?

With home-ownership you have security of tenure, you know you can live in that same house in that same area for as long as you keep making your monthly mortgage payments. When renting you have no such security and, regardless of whether you wish to keep making monthly payments or not, if your landlord decides you have to move out then that's what you have to do. 

As has been said numerous times before, for most people being forced to move out of your long-term home is devastating so why anyone would choose to take that risk when they don't have to is beyond me.

Of course not everyone has that choice; some people will have to rent for lots of different reasons but when you do have the choice I'm struggling to understand why you would choose such a fundamental risk with your long-term home?

lookstraightahead

MobileSaver said:

lookstraightahead said:

MobileSaver said:

lookstraightahead said:

MobileSaver said:

As I said there are always exceptions but I'm sure you accept that all other things being equal someone paying their own mortgage will be financially better off in most cases than someone paying their landlord's mortgage - how can it be any other way?

Property ownership per se may not be important to some people but family stability and security is important to practically everyone and owning your own property is one obvious way of achieving that.

Whether you are earning minimum wage or millions, being forced to leave your own home against your will be something most people would want to avoid at all costs so given a choice (and the millionaire is more likely to have that choice) it's pretty obvious why someone would want to own.

No I don't agree. I don't place such emphasis on property ownership in my life. Sorry 🤷‍♀️

And yet you own your own property...

they don't make me feel secure.

I think you must be using a different definition of "secure" to most other people; in the context of house buying and renting it is shorthand for "security of tenure". What do you mean by secure?

With home-ownership you have security of tenure, you know you can live in that same house in that same area for as long as you keep making your monthly mortgage payments. When renting you have no such security and, regardless of whether you wish to keep making monthly payments or not, if your landlord decides you have to move out then that's what you have to do. 

As has been said numerous times before, for most people being forced to move out of your long-term home is devastating so why anyone would choose to take that risk when they don't have to is beyond me.

Of course not everyone has that choice; some people will have to rent for lots of different reasons but when you do have the choice I'm struggling to understand why you would choose such a fundamental risk with your long-term home?

Seriously, I think we are going round in circles here. I do not place as much security on home ownership as you do. I do not think you need to own your home to have family/emotional security, and I think you can build financial security in many different ways. To me, a home is when I am with the people I love, and that can be my rented, mortgaged or owned outright house (and all of which will never always be mine as any home I'm in will be someone else's one day), my brother's house, a caravan, a tent, my mate's shed. To my daughter it is a shared rented flat with friends and a job she loves in a city she thrives in. To my husband security is definitely having money in the bank so that he can run his business. It can be community of any size to which you belong. It can be the pet by your side, your knitting club, the colleagues you work with, your business. You can feel secure on your own and in your own space. You can feel secure with owning your house or with having the freedom to move around. To some house ownership is important and to some they have become wealthier from it. To others house ownership has been a hindrance and they have lost money. 

You use the term "all things being equal". That can never, ever be a real comparison with human beings. You also say "for most people" and I would agree that most people on a house buying thread want to buy. But if you went to a forum entitled "travelling round the world for ever" then house buying wouldn't be important quite so much.

RobHT

lookstraightahead said:

We are early fifties and probably just as well off as someone who has owned property all their lives. We now have a very small mortgage thanks to income from our own businesses. We moved location and work in a beautiful area, with no commute. We rented for ages and I'm glad we didn't throw our businesses down the drain just to tick the right boxes for a mortgage. 

Now nearly mortgage and rent free and work for ourselves.

you don't have to own a property to feel secure, but you do need to think about what security you do have in skills, investments, income etc. It does depend on your personality and life experiences and what you want in life.  Lots of people don't want to be at the beck and call of a landlord, we didn't want to be at the beck and call of an employer. 

We do keep our skills up to date and are constantly educating ourselves and upskilling. We are settled now, but our home is all around the world (with luck) not just on a little plot of land.

Finally someone that sees the business aspect of life as I see it.
So you are the one that would say also the following "you depend from your job, not from 4 walls and one roof, that ain't gonna provide any income" .

I'll also buy one day if it's convenient, as you did, but at a reasonable age and with most of the cash put down, which means very little mortgage.
My investments are gonna workout for me, in the meanwhile, I wait the next real estate market dip

RobHT

MobileSaver said:

lookstraightahead said:

We are early fifties and probably just as well off as someone who has owned property all their lives.

While there are always exceptions, it's hard to see how that can be true for the vast majority of people.

All other things being equal, monthly rental payments will always be more than your own mortgage payments since your landlord won't get as competitive a rate as a home-owner and typically will be making a profit on top anyway. And of course after "renting for ages" it's the home-owner/landlord who will have benefited from HPI while you walk away with nothing.

lookstraightahead said:

We rented for ages and I'm glad we didn't throw our businesses down the drain just to tick the right boxes for a mortgage.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? I was running my own business when I took out the mortgage that I paid off 15 years later.

lookstraightahead said:

you don't have to own a property to feel secure, ... Lots of people don't want to be at the beck and call of a landlord, we didn't want to be at the beck and call of an employer.

I just don't think that's true; as a tenant you will be reminded every six or twelve months that you have to agree to new terms if you want to stay in your property - I'm not sure that instils security when you know one day you might receive a S8 or S21 instead of an invitation to renew.

No, it doesn't work in that way.
The agency will ask you if you want to renew, they tried to play with me for example, but I politely reminded them that after 6 months, it would have been a rolling contract as stated in the contract , 1 month rolling contract.
They wanted me to sign for other 6 months  

I'm in this house since 2y now, with a rolling contract and full freedom.
Yes, no equity built, but I don't mind, I have space for savings, investments, additional pension, cryptos etc...
Who cares about 4 walls which will become of a sad colour soon, smelly due to old carpets and full of problems .


Btw, that person you mentioned probably couldn't run his business from the location where he wanted or could purchase, simple.