My obsession with not buying in UK - Prove me wrong

comeandgo

RobHT said:

comeandgo said:

RobHT said:

Gycraig said:

What an absolute nonsense post, you used 30 years as a marking point. 

My dad paid 24k for his property in 1990 the year I was born the property is now worth 90-100k  He would have been mortgage free 5 years ago. 

Rent on that property will now be around 400 a month. So 5 years of rent payments now would have bought the house outright 30 years ago.

I paid 138k for my new build house 3 years ago with a 10 percent deposit, it’s now worth 160k I have got from 10 percent equity to 25 percent equity in 3 years, if I sold it today I’d get 47k back, on top of that I pay 450 a month for my mortgage my neighbours rent is 650. 

For me home ownership has been cheaper monthly than renting and also gained me a good chunk of equity.

I don’t understand how you can try to just “skip” the inflation part, if your rent is 1k today it certainly won’t be in 20 years my mortgage could easily be 450 in 20 years. 

If you want to rent instead of own great, but you embarrass yourself when you make posts like these. The nonsense about capital gains tax on a house you own coupled with “the bank take most of your equity” was comedy gold 

I considered the inflation, precisely from 600k (50y) rent up to 1M of rent!

CGT could have been my mistake, it's fine, I'm not ashamed to make mistakes, but I'll double check that , the nazi gov wants always some tax, I'm pretty sure it's not that easy as you say without any CGT.
In fact, I don't qualify: https://www.gov.uk/tax-sell-home 

You do not pay Capital Gains Tax when you sell (or ‘dispose of’) your home if all of the following apply:

• you have not used a part of your home exclusively for business purposes (using a room as a temporary or occasional office does not count as exclusive business use)

Of course my job will change many times, but I guess that I'll work from home 90% of my time.
I definitely worked from home since 3y, just as an example...

If you are an employee working from home you are not conducting a business so CGT is not something you will pay.  

I think that "business purposes" there means whatever business.
Otherwise, it would have been specific about not being an employee. Here I have an appropriate room for my job, just because I don't have the VAT registered it doesn't mean I don't use it for business, it's officially my office location.
I could try to play with the regulator, or whatever entity is gonna check this, but I don't want to risk .

You do not run a business therefore it is not business use.  HMRC rules and regulates this, not you.  Do you honestly think all the people wanting to work from home would do so if CGT was going to be paid when selling?

MobileSaver

RobHT said:

comeandgo said:

RobHT said:

You do not pay Capital Gains Tax when you sell (or ‘dispose of’) your home if all of the following apply:

• you have not used a part of your home exclusively for business purposes (using a room as a temporary or occasional office does not count as exclusive business use)

If you are an employee working from home you are not conducting a business so CGT is not something you will pay.

I think that "business purposes" there means whatever business.
Otherwise, it would have been specific about not being an employee. Here I have an appropriate room for my job,... it's officially my office location.

For probably the 100th time in this thread, you think wrong.

The key word you are ignoring is "exclusively" - it is practically impossible for a room in a two bed house to be used exclusively for business purposes.

For many people working from home they have one room dedicated as an office but if they also use that room to play games, watch !!!!!!, order their groceries online or engage in online discussions on MSE then the room is not being used exclusively for business purposes and so no CGT is payable. If you were a hairdresser, converted one room into a salon, put a lock on the door and only ever entered the room between 9am and 5pm for hairdressing purposes then yes CGT would be payable (but even then only on a percentage of the house so say 16% of the normal CGT payable.)

Put simply, no-one in the UK pays CGT when selling their home just because they used one room as an office while working from home.

MobileSaver

RobHT said:

I can see that free of speech is not something in trend in UK, I'm not surprised.

Which countries have "free of speech" that apply to private companies? Can you say whatever you want on Facebook in Germany or America or will you get banned if you break the rules?

jimbog

RobHT said:

Thrugelmir said:

RobHT said:

Thrugelmir said:

RobHT said:

steampowered said:

I would sympathise with your post if you lived in Europe - where it is very common for people to rent.

In most countries, renters have a good degree of security. You can't just be kicked out with two months' notice. You have the right to make reasonable amendments in your own home (e.g. putting up pictures). Most landlords are professional organisations, rather than total amateurs who try to spend the absolute minimum possible on upkeep. 

Unfortunately in the UK renters have very few rights. You can be kicked out on two months' notice. That might be OK for a single young person but it is not acceptable for a pensioner.

Home owners on the other hand have a lot of rights - it takes much longer for a bank to repossess a property than a landlord, plus there is support available for mortgage payments. 

In Germany, more than 50% rent 

If you knew your history then you'd know that 90% of Germany's housing stock was destroyed in WW2. People were left with literally nothing. Affordable rental accomodation was a consequence written into statue. 

90% seems overkill.
Naah, Germany works well from another point of view , I don't think the war played into that reasoning.
Plus, if the people couldn't' afford it, there wouldn't have been any good business, rental or buying.

Hence it's wise to know your subject well before bringing attempting to debate. Not that this forum is for debating in any event.  Hopefully the thread will soon be erased.   

I can see that free of speech is not something in trend in UK  

Following the rules is not unique to the UK and 'free speech' doesn't mean you can say whatever you want whenever you want e.g. shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre 

Sunsaru

My former neighbours have lived in their house for 60 years. Now that I moved my current neighbour has lived in their house nearly 30 years.

Its not as hard as you think.

steve866

RobHT said:

comeandgo said:

RobHT said:

Gycraig said:

What an absolute nonsense post, you used 30 years as a marking point. 

My dad paid 24k for his property in 1990 the year I was born the property is now worth 90-100k  He would have been mortgage free 5 years ago. 

Rent on that property will now be around 400 a month. So 5 years of rent payments now would have bought the house outright 30 years ago.

I paid 138k for my new build house 3 years ago with a 10 percent deposit, it’s now worth 160k I have got from 10 percent equity to 25 percent equity in 3 years, if I sold it today I’d get 47k back, on top of that I pay 450 a month for my mortgage my neighbours rent is 650. 

For me home ownership has been cheaper monthly than renting and also gained me a good chunk of equity.

I don’t understand how you can try to just “skip” the inflation part, if your rent is 1k today it certainly won’t be in 20 years my mortgage could easily be 450 in 20 years. 

If you want to rent instead of own great, but you embarrass yourself when you make posts like these. The nonsense about capital gains tax on a house you own coupled with “the bank take most of your equity” was comedy gold 

I considered the inflation, precisely from 600k (50y) rent up to 1M of rent!

CGT could have been my mistake, it's fine, I'm not ashamed to make mistakes, but I'll double check that , the nazi gov wants always some tax, I'm pretty sure it's not that easy as you say without any CGT.
In fact, I don't qualify: https://www.gov.uk/tax-sell-home 

You do not pay Capital Gains Tax when you sell (or ‘dispose of’) your home if all of the following apply:

• you have not used a part of your home exclusively for business purposes (using a room as a temporary or occasional office does not count as exclusive business use)

Of course my job will change many times, but I guess that I'll work from home 90% of my time.
I definitely worked from home since 3y, just as an example...

If you are an employee working from home you are not conducting a business so CGT is not something you will pay.  

I think that "business purposes" there means whatever business.
Otherwise, it would have been specific about not being an employee. Here I have an appropriate room for my job, just because I don't have the VAT registered it doesn't mean I don't use it for business, it's officially my office location.
I could try to play with the regulator, or whatever entity is gonna check this, but I don't want to risk .

steve866 said:

I just did a quick check for you. £350k house with 10% deposit, 40 year mortgages fixed for 5 years, monthly payment £1024.

By 65 you’d be mortgage free and have an asset you could pass on to children or someone else. If prices grew 2% a year on average the house would be worth £772k in 40 years. 

Of course there are other costs and risks involved. For me property ownership has always worked financially so far, but at one point it held be back in terms of wanting to move to a different area for a year or two, with it not being to pay all the fees and taxes to sell to move for a short period.

I'm not sure if I can get a 40y mortgage, I thought that these are for people in need, which technically we all are , but I don't think it's available to everyone.
40y mortgage sounds a huge expense in the end , but not more than renting for sure.
5y fixed it doesn't mean much, there are other 35y that can be in a much different situation in terms of interest rates.

In general, I don't think how someone could stay 40y in one place...
Stupid example, my grandmother (other country though), she lived in 2 houses and 1 apartment, left one house to the children and still paying rent, but she always stayed in the same little village.
In addition to her pension, she always took another one due to death of her husband when she was young, but that wouldn't have stopped her to rent and live decently, just so you know, even my grandmother kept herself free from the trap of one place.
She made it through WW2 up to today, I can't see how I can't make it.
Now, this is a simple story, but I explained the concept with the world economy that keeps moving in the first post, rent is necessary or there will be only people buying which will cause a crack down, so renting will be always affordable in somehow, hence, I assume that my salary will be always sufficient to pay rent and necessary expenses.

If all goes well, it's extremely convenient to buy, but nothing goes well mate, people that own an house are constantly spending money on it.
Surely it provides some sort of satisfation when it's done, but people like that get stuck at home instead to pay holidays and other more funny expenses, I'm not talking about my weird dreams, it's what I've always seen around.

It's like the story of who owns a car that is actually too expensive for his wallet (they are all too expensive due to the full liability and maintenance needed), in the end, it wins always who takes a leasing , as long as you don't exaggerate with the silly optionals.
I don't lease at the moment but probably I'll do it, I just need to sort out a good scratch insurance . (due to my usage of carrying a lot of things)

Many lenders will give a 40 year mortgage to anyone aged 35 or younger as they use 75 as an assumed retirement age.

After 5 years of ownership you’d have roughly £40k equity in the house in additional to the £35k deposit (assuming prices stayed constant). If you factor in £2k legal fees to buy, £2k legal fees to sell, £4.2k estate agent fees, £1k insurance costs and £10k maintenance, you’d still be left with £20k that you wouldn’t have when renting. 

If you value flexibility over money then renting is far better. 

RobHT

MobileSaver said:

RobHT said:

I can see that free of speech is not something in trend in UK, I'm not surprised.

Which countries have "free of speech" that apply to private companies? Can you say whatever you want on Facebook in Germany or America or will you get banned if you break the rules?

Of course you can't say anything wrong on social media , but I thought that this forum wasn't like that

RobHT

jimbog said:

RobHT said:

Thrugelmir said:

RobHT said:

Thrugelmir said:

RobHT said:

steampowered said:

I would sympathise with your post if you lived in Europe - where it is very common for people to rent.

In most countries, renters have a good degree of security. You can't just be kicked out with two months' notice. You have the right to make reasonable amendments in your own home (e.g. putting up pictures). Most landlords are professional organisations, rather than total amateurs who try to spend the absolute minimum possible on upkeep. 

Unfortunately in the UK renters have very few rights. You can be kicked out on two months' notice. That might be OK for a single young person but it is not acceptable for a pensioner.

Home owners on the other hand have a lot of rights - it takes much longer for a bank to repossess a property than a landlord, plus there is support available for mortgage payments. 

In Germany, more than 50% rent 

If you knew your history then you'd know that 90% of Germany's housing stock was destroyed in WW2. People were left with literally nothing. Affordable rental accomodation was a consequence written into statue. 

90% seems overkill.
Naah, Germany works well from another point of view , I don't think the war played into that reasoning.
Plus, if the people couldn't' afford it, there wouldn't have been any good business, rental or buying.

Hence it's wise to know your subject well before bringing attempting to debate. Not that this forum is for debating in any event.  Hopefully the thread will soon be erased.   

I can see that free of speech is not something in trend in UK  

Following the rules is not unique to the UK and 'free speech' doesn't mean you can say whatever you want whenever you want e.g. shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre 

Your example is another world ... How can you compare it my discussion? I have no words.

RobHT

Sunsaru said:

My former neighbours have lived in their house for 60 years. Now that I moved my current neighbour has lived in their house nearly 30 years.

Its not as hard as you think.

They must have had stable local jobs, which isn't my case.

Sunsaru

RobHT said:

In general, I don't think how someone could stay 40y in one place...

RobHT said:

Sunsaru said:

My former neighbours have lived in their house for 60 years. Now that I moved my current neighbour has lived in their house nearly 30 years.

Its not as hard as you think.

They must have had stable local jobs, which isn't my case.


So you CAN think how someone could stay 40y in one place.

As I said before, just do what you want to do. Do what you feel is right for you. We can all give you alternatives but at the end of the day if you do not wish to hear the alternatives then that is fine. So long as you're happy with your decisions and it works for it doesn't matter what others think.

Apart from the subject of CGT, which as others have mentioned, does not apply if you are employed (by an employer) and wfh as the asset is yours not your employers. Which is different if you run a business from home as you home may be an asset of your business. Do you think so many people would be wfh if they had to pay CGT on top of every other tax they have to pay? Hell no!!