My obsession with not buying in UK - Prove me wrong

theoretica

MobileSaver said:

RobHT said:

You need a stable job to pay a mortgage, very stable.

You need a stable job to pay your rent every month...

I disagree - because I know many people without stable jobs, and most of them either rent or have mortgages.  You need stability, if you are pushing your financial limits with your commitments.  If your rent or mortgage are at a level that you could afford with a lower income then a drop in income is a disappointment and not a crisis or something that needs you to change your home.

Sunsaru

OP, after reading all 11 pages the only advice I can give you is the following.

Just do whatever you want.

RobHT

theoretica said:

MobileSaver said:

RobHT said:

You need a stable job to pay a mortgage, very stable.

You need a stable job to pay your rent every month...

I disagree - because I know many people without stable jobs, and most of them either rent or have mortgages.  You need stability, if you are pushing your financial limits with your commitments.  If your rent or mortgage are at a level that you could afford with a lower income then a drop in income is a disappointment and not a crisis or something that needs you to change your home.

Good way to see this story.

Let's change speech.
Considering the average salary of 25k in UK, 37k in London, and let's say 30k just outside London, that average wouldn't pay my mortgage and expenses...
If I consider 50k salary due to my experience, just as entry point to a decent life and some saving monthly, then it's probably ok, but only one mistake and I'm done because I wouldn't be able to save much...
I've been very conservative and I lowered 2x from my actual salary, what do I get? Barely savings but the mortgage paid, it doesn't look encouraging .

Coming back to the previous point, for some reason, I didn't know that you could sell the house so easily or that I could release part of the equity too!
What the hell, did I read all wrong previously? I struggle to believe it, so I'll dig more into it.

In any case, I just looked at the prices in my area, I need to correct myself, it's 400k, not 350k nowadays, unless you wanna take something 30y old with the need to print it again, old appliances etc...
(for whom complained before, that's what I mean for reconstruction/refurbish)

A mortgage of 400k at 2.5% interests, with deposit of 10% (it's high for such sum), would be 1400 pounds monthly for 30y...
"But I pay my house, not the landlord's mortgage..."  
I don't want to joke too much about it, I also was thinking the same years ago, but guys, here there's a difference of 400 pounds...

comeandgo

RobHT said:

Gycraig said:

What an absolute nonsense post, you used 30 years as a marking point. 

My dad paid 24k for his property in 1990 the year I was born the property is now worth 90-100k  He would have been mortgage free 5 years ago. 

Rent on that property will now be around 400 a month. So 5 years of rent payments now would have bought the house outright 30 years ago.

I paid 138k for my new build house 3 years ago with a 10 percent deposit, it’s now worth 160k I have got from 10 percent equity to 25 percent equity in 3 years, if I sold it today I’d get 47k back, on top of that I pay 450 a month for my mortgage my neighbours rent is 650. 

For me home ownership has been cheaper monthly than renting and also gained me a good chunk of equity.

I don’t understand how you can try to just “skip” the inflation part, if your rent is 1k today it certainly won’t be in 20 years my mortgage could easily be 450 in 20 years. 

If you want to rent instead of own great, but you embarrass yourself when you make posts like these. The nonsense about capital gains tax on a house you own coupled with “the bank take most of your equity” was comedy gold 

I considered the inflation, precisely from 600k (50y) rent up to 1M of rent!

CGT could have been my mistake, it's fine, I'm not ashamed to make mistakes, but I'll double check that , the nazi gov wants always some tax, I'm pretty sure it's not that easy as you say without any CGT.
In fact, I don't qualify: https://www.gov.uk/tax-sell-home 

You do not pay Capital Gains Tax when you sell (or ‘dispose of’) your home if all of the following apply:

• you have not used a part of your home exclusively for business purposes (using a room as a temporary or occasional office does not count as exclusive business use)

Of course my job will change many times, but I guess that I'll work from home 90% of my time.
I definitely worked from home since 3y, just as an example...

If you are an employee working from home you are not conducting a business so CGT is not something you will pay.  

steve866

I just did a quick check for you. £350k house with 10% deposit, 40 year mortgages fixed for 5 years, monthly payment £1024.

By 65 you’d be mortgage free and have an asset you could pass on to children or someone else. If prices grew 2% a year on average the house would be worth £772k in 40 years. 

Of course there are other costs and risks involved. For me property ownership has always worked financially so far, but at one point it held be back in terms of wanting to move to a different area for a year or two, with it not being to pay all the fees and taxes to sell to move for a short period.

Thrugelmir

RobHT said:

Thrugelmir said:

RobHT said:

steampowered said:

I would sympathise with your post if you lived in Europe - where it is very common for people to rent.

In most countries, renters have a good degree of security. You can't just be kicked out with two months' notice. You have the right to make reasonable amendments in your own home (e.g. putting up pictures). Most landlords are professional organisations, rather than total amateurs who try to spend the absolute minimum possible on upkeep. 

Unfortunately in the UK renters have very few rights. You can be kicked out on two months' notice. That might be OK for a single young person but it is not acceptable for a pensioner.

Home owners on the other hand have a lot of rights - it takes much longer for a bank to repossess a property than a landlord, plus there is support available for mortgage payments. 

In Germany, more than 50% rent 

If you knew your history then you'd know that 90% of Germany's housing stock was destroyed in WW2. People were left with literally nothing. Affordable rental accomodation was a consequence written into statue. 

90% seems overkill.
Naah, Germany works well from another point of view , I don't think the war played into that reasoning.
Plus, if the people couldn't' afford it, there wouldn't have been any good business, rental or buying.

Hence it's wise to know your subject well before bringing attempting to debate. Not that this forum is for debating in any event.  Hopefully the thread will soon be erased.   

RobHT

comeandgo said:

RobHT said:

Gycraig said:

What an absolute nonsense post, you used 30 years as a marking point. 

My dad paid 24k for his property in 1990 the year I was born the property is now worth 90-100k  He would have been mortgage free 5 years ago. 

Rent on that property will now be around 400 a month. So 5 years of rent payments now would have bought the house outright 30 years ago.

I paid 138k for my new build house 3 years ago with a 10 percent deposit, it’s now worth 160k I have got from 10 percent equity to 25 percent equity in 3 years, if I sold it today I’d get 47k back, on top of that I pay 450 a month for my mortgage my neighbours rent is 650. 

For me home ownership has been cheaper monthly than renting and also gained me a good chunk of equity.

I don’t understand how you can try to just “skip” the inflation part, if your rent is 1k today it certainly won’t be in 20 years my mortgage could easily be 450 in 20 years. 

If you want to rent instead of own great, but you embarrass yourself when you make posts like these. The nonsense about capital gains tax on a house you own coupled with “the bank take most of your equity” was comedy gold 

I considered the inflation, precisely from 600k (50y) rent up to 1M of rent!

CGT could have been my mistake, it's fine, I'm not ashamed to make mistakes, but I'll double check that , the nazi gov wants always some tax, I'm pretty sure it's not that easy as you say without any CGT.
In fact, I don't qualify: https://www.gov.uk/tax-sell-home 

You do not pay Capital Gains Tax when you sell (or ‘dispose of’) your home if all of the following apply:

• you have not used a part of your home exclusively for business purposes (using a room as a temporary or occasional office does not count as exclusive business use)

Of course my job will change many times, but I guess that I'll work from home 90% of my time.
I definitely worked from home since 3y, just as an example...

If you are an employee working from home you are not conducting a business so CGT is not something you will pay.  

I think that "business purposes" there means whatever business.
Otherwise, it would have been specific about not being an employee. Here I have an appropriate room for my job, just because I don't have the VAT registered it doesn't mean I don't use it for business, it's officially my office location.
I could try to play with the regulator, or whatever entity is gonna check this, but I don't want to risk .

steve866 said:

I just did a quick check for you. £350k house with 10% deposit, 40 year mortgages fixed for 5 years, monthly payment £1024.

By 65 you’d be mortgage free and have an asset you could pass on to children or someone else. If prices grew 2% a year on average the house would be worth £772k in 40 years. 

Of course there are other costs and risks involved. For me property ownership has always worked financially so far, but at one point it held be back in terms of wanting to move to a different area for a year or two, with it not being to pay all the fees and taxes to sell to move for a short period.

I'm not sure if I can get a 40y mortgage, I thought that these are for people in need, which technically we all are , but I don't think it's available to everyone.
40y mortgage sounds a huge expense in the end , but not more than renting for sure.
5y fixed it doesn't mean much, there are other 35y that can be in a much different situation in terms of interest rates.

In general, I don't think how someone could stay 40y in one place...
Stupid example, my grandmother (other country though), she lived in 2 houses and 1 apartment, left one house to the children and still paying rent, but she always stayed in the same little village.
In addition to her pension, she always took another one due to death of her husband when she was young, but that wouldn't have stopped her to rent and live decently, just so you know, even my grandmother kept herself free from the trap of one place.
She made it through WW2 up to today, I can't see how I can't make it.
Now, this is a simple story, but I explained the concept with the world economy that keeps moving in the first post, rent is necessary or there will be only people buying which will cause a crack down, so renting will be always affordable in somehow, hence, I assume that my salary will be always sufficient to pay rent and necessary expenses.

If all goes well, it's extremely convenient to buy, but nothing goes well mate, people that own an house are constantly spending money on it.
Surely it provides some sort of satisfation when it's done, but people like that get stuck at home instead to pay holidays and other more funny expenses, I'm not talking about my weird dreams, it's what I've always seen around.

It's like the story of who owns a car that is actually too expensive for his wallet (they are all too expensive due to the full liability and maintenance needed), in the end, it wins always who takes a leasing , as long as you don't exaggerate with the silly optionals.
I don't lease at the moment but probably I'll do it, I just need to sort out a good scratch insurance . (due to my usage of carrying a lot of things)

RobHT

Thrugelmir said:

RobHT said:

Thrugelmir said:

RobHT said:

steampowered said:

I would sympathise with your post if you lived in Europe - where it is very common for people to rent.

In most countries, renters have a good degree of security. You can't just be kicked out with two months' notice. You have the right to make reasonable amendments in your own home (e.g. putting up pictures). Most landlords are professional organisations, rather than total amateurs who try to spend the absolute minimum possible on upkeep. 

Unfortunately in the UK renters have very few rights. You can be kicked out on two months' notice. That might be OK for a single young person but it is not acceptable for a pensioner.

Home owners on the other hand have a lot of rights - it takes much longer for a bank to repossess a property than a landlord, plus there is support available for mortgage payments. 

In Germany, more than 50% rent 

If you knew your history then you'd know that 90% of Germany's housing stock was destroyed in WW2. People were left with literally nothing. Affordable rental accomodation was a consequence written into statue. 

90% seems overkill.
Naah, Germany works well from another point of view , I don't think the war played into that reasoning.
Plus, if the people couldn't' afford it, there wouldn't have been any good business, rental or buying.

Hence it's wise to know your subject well before bringing attempting to debate. Not that this forum is for debating in any event.  Hopefully the thread will soon be erased.   

Why erased?
Everyone has the idea of removing posts here, banning people etc, I can see that free of speech is not something in trend in UK , I'm not surprised.

Btw, what did you wanna know? I think that this long thread says a lot, but of course is still under debate for people that want to debate

Slithery

RobHT said:

In general, I don't think how someone could stay 40y in one place...

What makes you think that you have to stay in one place?

You can sell the house and buy a new one in a different location whenever you want to and still get the benefits of a long mortgage.

RobHT said:

Why erased?

Because 'Debating House Prices & the Economy' is specifically not allowed here as is clearly stated in the rules, that's why...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/debate-house-prices-the-economy

RobHT said:

I can see that free of speech is not something in trend in UK , I'm not surprised.

'Free speech' doesn't mean what you think it does. Privately owned forums like this one can have whatever rules they wish.

RobHT

Slithery said:

RobHT said:

In general, I don't think how someone could stay 40y in one place...

What makes you think that you have to stay in one place?

You can sell the house and buy a new one in a different location whenever you want to and still get the benefits of a long mortgage.

RobHT said:

Why erased?

Because 'Debating House Prices & the Economy' is specifically not allowed here as is clearly stated in the rules, that's why...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/debate-house-prices-the-economy

RobHT said:

I can see that free of speech is not something in trend in UK , I'm not surprised.

'Free speech' doesn't mean what you think it does. Privately owned forums like this one can have whatever rules they wish.

I get you, but do you know how hard it is to find a new house and sell the current one at the same time?
Even forgetting the burocratic process, the house hunting itself is long...
Did you even think for one second about it? Plus, it's much more expensive than just relocating every 5y if you rent.

No comment on the rest, so the forum moderators are supposed to remove my thread because someone woke up with stupid ideas?
I wouldn't be surprised .
Freedom of speech is another thing, right, but I'd add that limiting discussions is low level stuff...