Solar panel quote

Clive_Woody

14x Trina Vertex S 400W Black Framed Mono solar panel GivEnergy 5kW Hybrid inverter

**NET** Emlite Bi-directional Meter ECA2.nv

Label sheet

iBoost Buddy

14x Tigo Retrofit Frame Mounted Optimiser TS4-R-O GivEnergy 100A DC breaker

GivEnergy EM115 Meter with CT Clamp

GivEnergy WiFi Dongle

2x Reinforced BirdBlocker for Solar Panels

2x AC isolator - KN 25A 3-pole

2x DC isolator - KG20-4

4x Pair of MC4 connectors

50m reel of 4mm2 solar cable

8x Fastensol end clamp (30mm black)

24x Fastensol mid clamp (30mm black)

8x Fastensol end cap (silver)

32x Fastensol portrait flat tile roof hook

8x Fastensol rail splice

10x FS Silver rail 3.3m

Scaffolding, Labour, Warranties, MCS Cert & Ancillaries

We want to have solar panels installed and listed above are the items from the quote. Essentially 14 panels and all fixings. Quote is just over £10,000 which seems high based on various articles suggesting average system installation costs around £6k.

We live in West Sussex, easy access to the back of the house, loads of parking and all panels being fitted together in a single plane.

Very keen to hear thoughts on this price.

ComicGeek

Why that particular system size? It's too large for most properties without a battery storage system. We would only use about 50% of our 4 kWp system at the moment without our battery system - this only increases over the summer.

Are they dealing with the G99 application, given that the system is over 16A per phase? Some installers seem to consider it option, but definitely isn't. 

Energy price rises mean that these systems become more attractive - some companies will increase prices to take advantage of this busy period. 

Clive_Woody

I work from home and my wife is at home all day, so our energy use during the day is probably higher than typical. We were also thinking ahead to have capacity for charging electric cars (don't currently own one).

No idea a what a G99 application is, so will need to look that up. So far the quote was done remotely and a site survey is needed, but was surprised at how high the quote was.

ComicGeek

We work from home, have servers running, have an electric car. I still couldn't use more than 50% of the annual generated electricity from our smaller system without the batteries. The problem is matching when electricity is generated with when it is needed.

For example, on Monday I had a pretty much perfect day when between 9am and 5pm our PV system provided all but 0.5 kWh of our needs - but I would have exported 54% of the PV generation without the batteries.

Yesterday we did 3 loads of washing and drying, and I had to charge the car - I would have only exported 7% of the PV generation without the batteries, but that probably happens once a week. 

Yes there are economies of scale with adding additional panels, but there is a point above which it doesn't make sense without battery storage. You should take some daily meter readings to see what your actual usage is each day, and compare that against what the proposed system would provide. And look at your base load - ours is really high at 0.7 kWh (so around 17 kWh per day before we turn on washing machines, cooking etc), so that will give you an idea of what you will actually use from the PV system at different times during the day.

The bottom line is that the installers want to sell you as large a system as possible to increase their profits. Try to find a local company rather than a large national company - although a lot of our local companies aren't quoting until at least June due to high demand!

Clive_Woody

Thanks, definitely interesting insight and sounds like this system could be overkill and going down to 12 panels would still be more than adequate. Not sure how much that would knock off the quote as I guess a lot of items are fixed cost as part of the install.

ComicGeek

If you can get into the 'standard' size range of 3-4 kWp, and below the G99 size of 3.68 kWp, then you'll find that the inverter drops significantly in price. The panels are relatively cheap each.

They've priced a top spec system, with hybrid inverter (great if you're going to install batteries, pointless if you're not), optimisers for each panel (only useful if any shading issues on the roof, and even then may not give a payback), bird guards (never been an issue for me). To get the price down all of these oversold items need to be considered.

Have they included for the iBoost system linked to a hot water cylinder immersion heater? The display monitor is listed but not the iBoost system itself.

Clive_Woody

ComicGeek said:

If you can get into the 'standard' size range of 3-4 kWp, and below the G99 size of 3.68 kWp, then you'll find that the inverter drops significantly in price. The panels are relatively cheap each.

They've priced a top spec system, with hybrid inverter (great if you're going to install batteries, pointless if you're not), optimisers for each panel (only useful if any shading issues on the roof, and even then may not give a payback), bird guards (never been an issue for me). To get the price down all of these oversold items need to be considered.

Have they included for the iBoost system linked to a hot water cylinder immersion heater? The display monitor is listed but not the iBoost system itself.

Thanks, that’s really helpful. He did mention the optimisers but I wasn’t entirely sure of the purpose or value - he said something about shading potentially stopping the whole system generating electricity if they weren’t used.

I saw that the panels were only around £200 each from a retailer so did wonder where all the extra money was being spent.

No plan on getting batteries installed. The bird mesh probably will be of value as we have everything from massive crows, jays, magpies and pigeons, to thousands of small birds that may well see the panels as a prime nesting site. 

I said I wanted an iBoost system for the hot water so had missed that that wasn’t included.

ComicGeek

The optimisers are good if you have a chimney or tree or something that shades part of the string of panels - even a small amount of shading on one panel can significantly affect the whole system. However if they are all on the same roof in simple rows then it is unlikely that this is the case, and even then you wouldn't put 1 on every single panel - that's probably about £1k of extras you probably don't need just there.

They are probably overcharging you just under £1k for the hybrid inverter that you say you don't want. Then reducing the system size to something sensible would also drop the price.

Ectophile

When it comes to bird mesh and solar panels, it's the pigeons that are the problem.

For about 7 years after my panels were fitted, everything was fine.  Then a flock of pigeons moved into my area.  Before long, they were nesting under my panels.  The gutters were always filling with twigs and bird mess.  Eventually, I paid a pest control person to come in and fit bird proofing.  Even then, I've been warned that the pigeons will hang around for some time, but there aren't so many of them around any more.

ComicGeek

Ectophile said:

When it comes to bird mesh and solar panels, it's the pigeons that are the problem.

For about 7 years after my panels were fitted, everything was fine.  Then a flock of pigeons moved into my area.  Before long, they were nesting under my panels.  The gutters were always filling with twigs and bird mess.  Eventually, I paid a pest control person to come in and fit bird proofing.  Even then, I've been warned that the pigeons will hang around for some time, but there aren't so many of them around any more.

I've always thought that I've been just lucky, as we've never had problems with pigeons with our panels. I found out only recently that a few birds of prey (a pair of red kites and a buzzard) perch on our roof to watch the fields next to us - hopefully will be enough to stop them nesting under the panels!

Clive_Woody

Ectophile said:

When it comes to bird mesh and solar panels, it's the pigeons that are the problem.

For about 7 years after my panels were fitted, everything was fine.  Then a flock of pigeons moved into my area.  Before long, they were nesting under my panels.  The gutters were always filling with twigs and bird mess.  Eventually, I paid a pest control person to come in and fit bird proofing.  Even then, I've been warned that the pigeons will hang around for some time, but there aren't so many of them around any more.

We do have a lot pigeons, occasionally the crows chase them, but they are too big for resident sparrow hawk who prefers the blackbirds.