Neighbour extending wants a DIY Party Wall Agreement

Chapsley

My house is detached, but the neighbour's garage is on the boundary and our only access path to the garden runs alongside it. Our gate to the back garden is attached to our wall and the side of his garage wall. Last summer he put in planning for a double extension on the side (knocking down the garage and extending his living room into it, and then a bedroom on top) plus a full-width kitchen extension out the back. We didn't object, and he said he was likely going to do it in 5 years or so as he didn't have the cash to do it now.

However, on Monday two random guys rocked up at his house and started chipping away his garage - no builders van, no skip (getting big cowboy vibes!). We had no advance warning that he was starting the extension at all. When we were out, the two "builders" came onto our driveway with their ladder and started chipping away the garage from our side. No permission asked (we have a Nest doorbell so saw via this).

We then spoke to the neighbour that evening and promptly informed him he needed to cease all works until a party wall agreement was put in place. He hadn't heard of it so we sent him a load of info (he is not from this country originally, this is the first house he has owned. He has used a lot of quite random people to do it up). The neighbour is a nice guy, three young kids, we are friendly. He just tries to do things on the cheap I think. We have a friendly, neighbourly relationship.

Builders didn't come back yesterday. The neighbour then came round last night and said he would draw up an agreement for us to sign, covering his liability for damage and said he would come and take photos Sat morning.

My concern is that we're not really doing things 'properly'. My husband thinks lots of people do their own DIY agreements like this, but I'm just a bit wary. If it's a legit way of doing things then fine. We don't want to cause any issues or damage the relationship with the neighbour. This is going to be an inconvenience, but it won't last forever!

They will need to put scaffolding up on our pathway for 10-12 weeks he said. He'd give us 2 weeks notice of this before. As well as constant safe access, we said we would need a secure gate on the front and back of this so no-one could get down the side (either randoms off the street, or our young children when they are playing in the back). 

We forked out an absolute fortune last summer getting a new driveway and patio round the back - the patio tiles run down this side path round to the garden. So we are worried about potential damage to that.

Also we have a granny annexe in the garden which we rent out via AirBnb very successfully, so I'm just worried about the impact on this on the business. We will tell any guests in advance, but my concern is cancelled guests or guests leaving bad reviews as a result. But I'm guessing we can't really do much about that even if we had a proper Party Wall Agreement.

And advice would be welcome. 

Section62

Chapsley said:

Also we have a granny annexe in the garden which we rent out via AirBnb very successfully, so I'm just worried about the impact on this on the business. We will tell any guests in advance, but my concern is cancelled guests or guests leaving bad reviews as a result. But I'm guessing we can't really do much about that even if we had a proper Party Wall Agreement.

And advice would be welcome. 

...unless your business is 100% legit (all permissions obtained, all taxes paid etc etc) I'd be hesitant to upset the neighbour over their compliance with the rules on building.

That said, I'd also be concerned whether someone who was unaware of the party wall act was also unaware of the need to comply with building regs, and get the appropriate signoffs.  This could affect you if part-way through the build the council's BC team become aware of defective work, and the neighbour's project comes to a grinding halt.

There's also the question of what arrangement you've come to given his extension wall will be on the boundary, and his foundations and roof will be partially constructed (as they almost certainly will need to be) above/below your property rather than his.  Dealing with the complexity of those issues is probably beyond his DIY legal skills.

twopenny

Proper agreement as to what is and isnt agreed.
This will affect your new driveway and maybe more. I'm thinking from your description that these builders don't have a company to address a y problems or financial recompense so he needs to be responsible for any damage or problems and a plan for how your gateway will be reinstated.
You also need to have a copy of his plans and take a good look at drainage including from the roof.
If anyone does a diy agreement it should be you.

TELLIT01

For an extension of the size suggested would planning permission not be required?  Maybe not because part of the work is replacement of an existing part of the property?

FaceHead

Chapsley said:

...We didn't object, and he said he was likely going to do it in 5 years or so as he didn't have the cash to do it now.

Work must begin within 2 years of the planning being granted, otherwise it effectively expires, so this was never going to be true. Perhaps this is just another thing they are not aware of, or perhaps they planned to use the legally tenuous approach of doing a little bit of work themselves so they can say they've "started", but not actually engaging builders until later. 

Agree with the point about building control. You should politely point out that there's this thing called building control they need to do too. You could enquire with the council as to whether a notice has been served. 

There is nothing wrong with a DIY party wall agreement. In fact, for routine works like this, this is the recommended route by the MHCLG (or whatever they are called now). They provide template letters to help people avoid unnecessary party wall costs. Under no circumstances be intimidated by the ambulance chasers that will contact you as a result of their planning approval. If you are really desperate for a surveyor - for no logical reason other than it'd make you feel better - choose one yourself and you neighbour should go along with using them as a joint surveyor. 

A surveyor-drawn-up party wall agreement (distinct from you taking some photos and consenting to their notice) really doesn't offer you much protection. It'll set out things like the working times and what not, but really it's a bit of a waste of everyone's time, as this is all drawn from other law (e.g.  no working on a Sunday), so you have mechanisms to deal with this if it happens anyway. 

The neighbour should send you a fruit basket in exchange for signing the consent letter (saving them £500-£1000), and you allowing access to your property, and you should take your own photos. If there is damage, they should put it right, or you can use the photos to take action get them to pay to put it right - again a party wall agreement/award wouldn't change this. 

The only thing that I think a rational and well informed neighbour could want is a professionally done schedule of condition, to save them needing to get their shoes on and take photos, which seems rather lazy and unneighbourly. This rational, well informed and incredibly lazy neighbour would then consent to the notice, once the schedule of condition is done.

As a general rule, the neighbour investing in developing their property and pushing up prices in the area is good for you. 

Doozergirl

Hold up.  

Has anyone established that the party wall act even applies here? 

Your house is detached so there's limited application here.   How old is your house and how far is this new extension?  The act would only apply within a certain distance - usually 3 metres AND only if their planned foundations are deeper than yours.  

Scaffolding on the drive and potential damage to nearby patios or gates doesn't fall under the act at all.  

GDB2222

Get a surveyor to do one properly, at the neighbour’s expense. 

GDB2222

Doozergirl said:

Hold up.  

Has anyone established that the party wall act even applies here? 

Your house is detached so there's limited application here.   How old is your house and how far is this new extension? 

Scaffolding on the drive and potential damage to nearby patios or gates doesn't fall under the act at all.  

I was wondering about that, but the op and the neighbour both seem to think it does apply. If the op gets a surveyor, he will obviously advise whether the act applies.

Gavin83

Chapsley said:

My house is detached, but the neighbour's garage is on the boundary and our only access path to the garden runs alongside it. Our gate to the back garden is attached to our wall and the side of his garage wall. Last summer he put in planning for a double extension on the side (knocking down the garage and extending his living room into it, and then a bedroom on top) plus a full-width kitchen extension out the back. We didn't object, and he said he was likely going to do it in 5 years or so as he didn't have the cash to do it now.

However, on Monday two random guys rocked up at his house and started chipping away his garage - no builders van, no skip (getting big cowboy vibes!). We had no advance warning that he was starting the extension at all. When we were out, the two "builders" came onto our driveway with their ladder and started chipping away the garage from our side. No permission asked (we have a Nest doorbell so saw via this).

We then spoke to the neighbour that evening and promptly informed him he needed to cease all works until a party wall agreement was put in place. He hadn't heard of it so we sent him a load of info (he is not from this country originally, this is the first house he has owned. He has used a lot of quite random people to do it up). The neighbour is a nice guy, three young kids, we are friendly. He just tries to do things on the cheap I think. We have a friendly, neighbourly relationship.

Builders didn't come back yesterday. The neighbour then came round last night and said he would draw up an agreement for us to sign, covering his liability for damage and said he would come and take photos Sat morning.

My concern is that we're not really doing things 'properly'. My husband thinks lots of people do their own DIY agreements like this, but I'm just a bit wary. If it's a legit way of doing things then fine. We don't want to cause any issues or damage the relationship with the neighbour. This is going to be an inconvenience, but it won't last forever!

They will need to put scaffolding up on our pathway for 10-12 weeks he said. He'd give us 2 weeks notice of this before. As well as constant safe access, we said we would need a secure gate on the front and back of this so no-one could get down the side (either randoms off the street, or our young children when they are playing in the back). 

We forked out an absolute fortune last summer getting a new driveway and patio round the back - the patio tiles run down this side path round to the garden. So we are worried about potential damage to that.

Also we have a granny annexe in the garden which we rent out via AirBnb very successfully, so I'm just worried about the impact on this on the business. We will tell any guests in advance, but my concern is cancelled guests or guests leaving bad reviews as a result. But I'm guessing we can't really do much about that even if we had a proper Party Wall Agreement.

And advice would be welcome. 

Just so you're aware you don't actually have to allow this. It will of course cause issues for them and will likely sour neighbour relations but you none the less it's your choice. How close to the boundary will this be? Because Section62 raises the very valid point of some of the construction potentially being required on your property should the wall still be on the boundary. This will likely require some of your newly laid path having to be dug up and will likely take the side access out of action. Again you don't need to allow this.

Sadly even if the side access isn't disturbed it's likely to have an affect on your Airbnb business. Most people don't wish to holiday next to a building site. I would advice telling people in advance though. Having turned up to several hotels/Airbnbs in the past to find a significant building site next door I can tell you it leaves a bad taste in your mouth to only find out on arrival. And yes, I've left bad reviews due to this in the past. 

Doozergirl

GDB2222 said:

Doozergirl said:

Hold up.  

Has anyone established that the party wall act even applies here? 

Your house is detached so there's limited application here.   How old is your house and how far is this new extension? 

Scaffolding on the drive and potential damage to nearby patios or gates doesn't fall under the act at all.  

I was wondering about that, but the op and the neighbour both seem to think it does apply. If the op gets a surveyor, he will obviously advise whether the act applies.

We're going to have that 'he' conversation again.  I know you don't like 'they' but this is the 21st century and 'the surveyor' or even 'the PWS' will also suffice if you object to 'they' that much. 

I'm sure a PWS will tell them if the Act applies, but employing one, or even two to cover the absolute periphery of the Act is a bit overkill.    It certainly won't cover the things that the OP actually seems concerned about.   

Anyway, we're that many posts down this thread and everyone is making assumptions and giving incorrect advice so far.  

FreeBear

Chapsley said: We forked out an absolute fortune last summer getting a new driveway and patio round the back - the patio tiles run down this side path round to the garden. So we are worried about potential damage to that.

Insist that tarps are put down, followed by sheets of close fitting ply or OSB to protect your paving. Builders are (often) messy individuals and have little regard for the carp they drop on the ground. Without protection for your paving, you will end up with snots of cement, dollops of paint, and possibly cracked pavers as work progresses. The risk of damage increases exponentially depending on the number of horses the builders use.