Neighbour extending wants a DIY Party Wall Agreement

Chapsley

Thanks for all your comments.

We are fairly confident a PWA should have been arranged. We are detached, but built very close together. The FMB states that an agreement is needed for:' Work to garden boundary walls', and 'Building a second-storey extension above a shared wall' (I think also 'Building a new wall up to or off the party wall.' would include his plans).

That said, I'd also be concerned whether someone who was unaware of the party wall act was also unaware of the need to comply with building regs, and get the appropriate signoffs.  This could affect you if part-way through the build the council's BC team become aware of defective work, and the neighbour's project comes to a grinding halt.

There's also the question of what arrangement you've come to given his extension wall will be on the boundary, and his foundations and roof will be partially constructed (as they almost certainly will need to be) above/below your property rather than his.  Dealing with the complexity of those issues is probably beyond his DIY legal skills.

And yes, the issue of them not having contacted Building Regs is a good shout. We will make sure he does that. He is a decent guy, I don't think he wants to do this shoddily, he is just a bit naive I think. And yes, we will try and ensure that no guttering or eaves overhang onto our side. There is another house on the road with a similar extension, I'll have a look and see what they've done with their gutters. TBH it's not ideal having them hang over our side if they have to, but it's not the end of the world.

We will definitely be ensuring they protect the patio as much as possible. We will require access at all times. So if this isn't possible and if there is any requirement for them to be digging up our patio or driveway I'm fairly sure we'll be saying no to that.

Likewise we will ensure this document we're drawing up puts the liability for costs of repairs at his feet not his random builders. In fact I might stipulate in the document the name of the company that laid our patio and will ensure they are the ones to carry out any repairs. I'm hopeful it won't get to that point though!

We have already taken quite extensive photos and videos ourselves,.

Doozergirl

Chapsley said:

Thanks for all your comments.

We are fairly confident a PWA should have been arranged. We are detached, but built very close together. The FMB states that an agreement is needed for:' Work to garden boundary walls', and 'Building a second-storey extension above a shared wall' (I think also 'Building a new wall up to or off the party wall.' would include his plans).

I'm a director of the FMB!  What's the link, please? 

Work to garden boundary walls does not apply if they are not shared walls.  

The other things you describe is for genuinely shared party walls - where you are in attached houses and the structure is irrefutably vital to both 'parties'.  

Chapsley

It won't let me share the full link, but after the main domain, the URL is find-a-builder/ultimate-guides-to-home-renovation/party-wall-agreements-what-you-need-to-know.html#when

Chapsley

That article also said "Excavation works – or underpinning – to, or close by (within 3-6m), the party wall."... so OR rather than AND, which I'm not sure is now correct given your previous comment!

So I'm now thinking that this DIY agreement is more than enough. And given that I trust that he is basically a good guy and we have good relations, then it should all be fine. I think we'll just have to be a bit more wary given his choice of builders. Annoying as we had really amazing ones we told him about a while ago and I would have had zero concerns about him doing all this using them. But I guess he went cheap. 

Doozergirl

https://www.fmb.org.uk/find-a-builder/ultimate-guides-to-home-renovation/party-wall-agreements-what-you-need-to-know.html

Thanks.   There's nothing wrong with the guide that I can see; it's potentially only your interpretation.  

1/ "work to garden boundary walls"

You've not described his garage wall as anything other than 'his'.  Does this garage wall straddle the boundary or is it on his side?   Do you think it's yours as well? 

2/ "Building a second-storey extension above a shared wall". 

This really is for attached houses and refers to loft extensions or additional storeys where the wall is shared and extended upwards. 

3/ "Building a new wall up to or off the party wall". 

Again applies to attaching a new wall onto a shared wall.  

Unless his garage wall is also physically your wall (and you haven't suggested that it is) then none of the above apply. 

The one that might is one you've missed. "Excavation works – or underpinning – to, or close by (within 3-6m), the party wall" is what I mentioned to earlier.  It only applies where their foundations are intended to be deeper than yours.  I don't think you answered the questions I asked earlier about proximity and age of the house?  

Chapsley

It's his garage, on his side. But the beginning of the article says: 

"Good examples include the walls that separate terraced or semi-detached houses — or walls that make up the boundary between two gardens (party fence walls)."

After his garage, he has a fence that connects from the garage and then goes down the boundary of our gardens. The plans are to replace this fence at the same time as building the extension, so his new living room wall replaces the edge of his garage wall, and this wall now carries on down the garden (although at fence height).

So yes, the garage wall is on his side, but surely "walls that make up the boundary between two gardens" covers this situation? The garage wall is currently is acting like a garden fence and is a boundary.

However.... all this being said, it's a moot point now as I'm fairly sure we are going down this written agreement route between us now. So any advice on what we need to include in that would be welcome.

Doozergirl

No, it doesn't.  It has to be a 'party' structure that is shared. It isn't shared, it's his wall on his side of the boundary - like your house is your house on your side of the boundary.  Just because his wall forms a decent boundary for you, it does not make it a party structure or a party wall.  A party structure has shared ownership.   Party fences that straddle a boundary are not covered by the act at all. 

With regard to your upcoming agreement, if he causes damage to your property then he is always liable for it.   That can't be refuted.  The photographs showing the condition of your property beforehand are all you really need, as well as decent communication between the two of you and the builders to agree how your property needs to be protected at important points in the build so that they are mitigating any potential issues. 

You probably won't be able to think of all of them straight away and things, ideas, staff and behaviours will change over time.   They just need to be careful and respectful and you need to be understanding and as flexible as you can be.  

DRP

Chapsley said:

Thanks for all your comments.

TBH it's not ideal having them hang over our side if they have to, but it's not the end of the world.

Re: gutters overhanging. Surely this is something to nip in the bud?

there's practical, and future development implications to allowing them to build over the boundary.

There's no way I would allow it. 

Doozergirl

DRP said:

Chapsley said:

Thanks for all your comments.

TBH it's not ideal having them hang over our side if they have to, but it's not the end of the world.

Re: gutters overhanging. Surely this is something to nip in the bud?

there's practical, and future development implications to allowing them to build over the boundary.

There's no way I would allow it. 

I think they're referring to people, not property.  

Some serious assumptions being made on this thread today.  

DRP

Doozergirl said:

DRP said:

Chapsley said:

Thanks for all your comments.

TBH it's not ideal having them hang over our side if they have to, but it's not the end of the world.

Re: gutters overhanging. Surely this is something to nip in the bud?

there's practical, and future development implications to allowing them to build over the boundary.

There's no way I would allow it. 

I think they're referring to people, not property.  

Some serious assumptions being made on this thread today.  

People hanging over their boundary? 


"I'll have a look and see what they've done with their gutters. TBH it's not ideal having them hang over our side if they have to, but it's not the end of the world."