Way to appeal bank not helping with a fraud claim?

rainiorainio

Hello,
 Bought a clothes item (Paul Smith tie) online in January (£61 - they took £66 out of my account due to conversion fees, though the site seemed to be located in the UK), didn't receive an email confirmation (though had saved a screenshot) so checked the site and realized it's probably a fraudulent site (no address), tried to cancel the payment was told to do so after a few weeks, which I did as a "item not received" claim. The money was returned soon after.

Weeks later I had received an email from the seller (very dodgy looking, no signature, no logos) stating that the item was being shipped from china which I assumed was a lie (sending an Italian made tie from china?).

An item did arrive from china, however it was a scarf. We weren't sure why it had arrived. Wasn#t sure whether it was the dodgy site or something else. The website of the "shop" doesn't exist any more.

A few days ago received an email from the bank that the merchant had given proof of delivery so the money would be taken out of my account again. I video record opening packages in case something like this occurrs, and found the video of opening the scarf package.

The issue: I called the bank to say that I have evidence that the wrong item was received, and they replied that as I had already filed a claim under "item not received", and consumers only have one attempt at making a claim, I could now not change it to "wrong item received" and I could not provide evidence, as these are mastercard's protocols.

Is there a way that I can appeal this (not for the money but from an ethical standpoint)?

cx6

well your item hasn't been received - the fact that a random scarf was delivered to you is neither here nor there.

To take it further open a complaint with your bank - item still.not received don't muddy waters with wrong item.

rainiorainio

Sure, though from their point of view the seller showed tracking that shows an item was delivered, and they would say it's a scarf, and I'm now not allowed to present the video proving it's not a scarf as their rules don't allow it.

TELLIT01

This type of fraud is becoming more and more common.  I ordered an item from a supposedly UK based website and received a 30 piece jigsaw puzzle from China instead.  I hadn't ordered any kind of jigsaw.  When an incorrect item is delivered the expectation from the bank is that the item be returned, and only then, if the correct item isn't received or a refund provided will the bank get involved.  It's worth doing a Google search for the supplier and if you can show that others have had the same problem it is clearly a fraud and chargeback can be raised.

In my case, a 3rd party guaranteed delivery, and when I contacted them I received an immediate refund.  I can only assume this company had also been conned, but stuck by their responsibilities.

Manxman_in_exile

cx6 said:

well your item hasn't been received - the fact that a random scarf was delivered to you is neither here nor there.

To take it further open a complaint with your bank - item still.not received don't muddy waters with wrong item.

Well your point does sound like common sense, doesn't it?  But if this is a chargeback, then some of the rules around chargebacks don't make any sense at all, do they?

eg  you apparently cannot claim a chargeback for non-delivery so long as an item has been delivered  - anywhere...  So even if it's been delivered to the wrong address 300 miles away, it doesn't count as non-delivery for chargeback purposes.

Nothing completely bonkers would surprise me about the daft rules around chargebacks.

The OP needs to see if @born_again sees this thread - they seem to know the chargeback rules better than most.

born_again

rainiorainio said:

Hello,
 Bought a clothes item (Paul Smith tie) online in January (£61 - they took £66 out of my account due to conversion fees, though the site seemed to be located in the UK), didn't receive an email confirmation (though had saved a screenshot) so checked the site and realized it's probably a fraudulent site (no address), tried to cancel the payment was told to do so after a few weeks, which I did as a "item not received" claim. The money was returned soon after.

Weeks later I had received an email from the seller (very dodgy looking, no signature, no logos) stating that the item was being shipped from china which I assumed was a lie (sending an Italian made tie from china?).

An item did arrive from china, however it was a scarf. We weren't sure why it had arrived. Wasn#t sure whether it was the dodgy site or something else. The website of the "shop" doesn't exist any more.

A few days ago received an email from the bank that the merchant had given proof of delivery so the money would be taken out of my account again. I video record opening packages in case something like this occurrs, and found the video of opening the scarf package.

The issue: I called the bank to say that I have evidence that the wrong item was received, and they replied that as I had already filed a claim under "item not received", and consumers only have one attempt at making a claim, I could now not change it to "wrong item received" and I could not provide evidence, as these are mastercard's protocols.

Is there a way that I can appeal this (not for the money but from an ethical standpoint)?

Sounds like it was one of the many Chinese sites that advertise on social media or have a domain name like the retailer.

Bank are correct you only get one shot at a chargeback. Thats is Visa/Mastercard rules for you. Which are over & above your consumer rights. So while you could try complaining to the bank in the hope that they just give you your money back. That's the only hope.

TBH. Video evidence does not help as there is no way to upload anything like that.

I know this does not help in this case. But when buying online. Get into the habit of looking at T/C, Returns & other pages often linked at bottom of page. 
These are dead giveaways as bad spelling, no address & a copy & paste from other sites that have no relation to what you are buying.


Also this is not fraud. As far as banks go. Fraud is when a unknown 3rd party has used your card. This is a simply dispute as you ordered the item. 👍

TELLIT01

born_again said:

Also this is not fraud. As far as banks go. Fraud is when a unknown 3rd party has used your card. This is a simply dispute as you ordered the item. 👍

Fraud is not that simple.  If there is a pattern of false advertising, wrong items being delivered to multiple customers etc, then it does become fraudulent activity.  It is no restricted to a 3rd party using a card.

rainiorainio

Any point in raining a complaint with the financial ombudsman? Perhaps if they have enough they might force mastercard to change it's policies.

jon81uk

rainiorainio said:

Any point in raining a complaint with the financial ombudsman? Perhaps if they have enough they might force mastercard to change it's policies.

It’s not really a finance issue though, it’s a consumer rights one but as you’ve (unknowingly) bought from a Chinese company UK consumer rights don’t really apply. 

rainiorainio

jon81uk said:

rainiorainio said:

Any point in raining a complaint with the financial ombudsman? Perhaps if they have enough they might force mastercard to change it's policies.

It’s not really a finance issue though, it’s a consumer rights one but as you’ve (unknowingly) bought from a Chinese company UK consumer rights don’t really apply. 

I was thinking more that mastercard/the bank have a protocol where we can only make a claim once, and can't update it when more evidence surfaces.

Manxman_in_exile

rainiorainio said:

jon81uk said:

rainiorainio said:

Any point in raining a complaint with the financial ombudsman? Perhaps if they have enough they might force mastercard to change it's policies.

It’s not really a finance issue though, it’s a consumer rights one but as you’ve (unknowingly) bought from a Chinese company UK consumer rights don’t really apply. 

I was thinking more that mastercard/the bank have a protocol where we can only make a claim once, and can't update it when more evidence surfaces.

But if you didn't pay more than £100 and you didn't use a credit card, you don't have any legal or consumer rights against your bank that you can complain to anyone about.

A chargeback - assuming that's what this is, you haven't actually said - is something that card providers give you in addition to your statutory consumer rights, and whether it applies or not depends solely on the T&Cs agreed between Mastercard and Visa.  If it falls outside those T&Cs then it isn't covered.  There's nothing to complain to any ombudsman about.

But if you'd paid over £100 and by credit card, you'd be covered by s75 Consumer Credit Act.  And - interestingly - s75 would also cover you on overseas purchases.   (@born_again gave a link to a decided case on this point last year).