Way to appeal bank not helping with a fraud claim?

Ectophile

https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/area-of-expertise/cards/chargeback-and-section-75 This site says that you can claim chargeback if the item is not as describes.  The "can't get a refund twice" is referring to getting a refund fron the retailer and also getting a chargeback on the card.

I would suggest opening a formal complaint with the bank.

Manxman_in_exile

Ectophile said:

https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/area-of-expertise/cards/chargeback-and-section-75 This site says that you can claim chargeback if the item is not as describes.  The "can't get a refund twice" is referring to getting a refund fron the retailer and also getting a chargeback on the card.

I would suggest opening a formal complaint with the bank.

But isn't the problem here that that is not what has happened?  ie the OP has not been refunded twice.

I may be mistaken, but as I understand it the problem here is that (1) the OP opened an initial claim for "not received" and was refunded by the bank, but then (2) the item was delivered and the retailer provided proof of that to the bank, so (3) the bank then clawed back the refund.

The problem appears to be that the bank is saying that you can only have one attempt at claiming a chargeback - so that if you get it wrong the first time, you can't try again.  Whether that's correct or not I don't know - but it seems to be confirmed by @born_again who I suspect works for a bank... (?)

born_again

TELLIT01 said:

born_again said:

Also this is not fraud. As far as banks go. Fraud is when a unknown 3rd party has used your card. This is a simply dispute as you ordered the item. 👍

Fraud is not that simple.  If there is a pattern of false advertising, wrong items being delivered to multiple customers etc, then it does become fraudulent activity.  It is no restricted to a 3rd party using a card.

I get what you are saying. 
But...
It is as far as a bank goes.
If you make the purchase you can not claim fraud to get your money back. As I said. Fraud on a card payment is when a unknown 3rd party uses you card details.
If you make the payment, then there are dispute options available as the OP did. But card regulations only allow one attempt at this. If rejected, then you can not go back & try on a different dispute.
FCA/FOS will not get involved in this as they are card regulations, which they have no power over. In fact if they tried to stick their nose in Visa/Mastercard could just pull them altogether. As they are only their regulations (bit like a retailer warranty)

Maestro only had 3 chargebacks. Non receipt (international purchases only) CPA (but needed proof of cancelation from retailer) & a fraud when 3rd party used card.

robatwork

If nothing else this thread has pointed me to the retail site for Paul Smith ties to see what their cost is.

https://www.paulsmith.com/uk/mens/accessories/ties

Not bought a tie in a while but this brand averages over £100. I think my last tie was £15 so either I'm out of touch or these are very pricey. 

Manxman_in_exile

robatwork said:

If nothing else this thread has pointed me to the retail site for Paul Smith ties to see what their cost is.

https://www.paulsmith.com/uk/mens/accessories/ties

Not bought a tie in a while but this brand averages over £100. I think my last tie was £15 so either I'm out of touch or these are very pricey. 

But you must be familiar with the name/brand?  He's been around for over 40 years...

robatwork

Manxman_in_exile said:

robatwork said:

If nothing else this thread has pointed me to the retail site for Paul Smith ties to see what their cost is.

https://www.paulsmith.com/uk/mens/accessories/ties

Not bought a tie in a while but this brand averages over £100. I think my last tie was £15 so either I'm out of touch or these are very pricey. 

But you must be familiar with the name/brand?  He's been around for over 40 years...

Absolutely, and I have bought their after shave which is the same price, or less than, some of the other designer brands. 

I wonder what their ties give you more than a £20 job. Apart from the same superior feeling that doubtless comes associated with a Patek Philippe.

FeaturelessVoid

born_again said:

TELLIT01 said:

born_again said:

Also this is not fraud. As far as banks go. Fraud is when a unknown 3rd party has used your card. This is a simply dispute as you ordered the item. 👍

Fraud is not that simple.  If there is a pattern of false advertising, wrong items being delivered to multiple customers etc, then it does become fraudulent activity.  It is no restricted to a 3rd party using a card.

I get what you are saying. 
But...
It is as far as a bank goes.
If you make the purchase you can not claim fraud to get your money back. As I said. Fraud on a card payment is when a unknown 3rd party uses you card details.
If you make the payment, then there are dispute options available as the OP did. But card regulations only allow one attempt at this. If rejected, then you can not go back & try on a different dispute.
FCA/FOS will not get involved in this as they are card regulations, which they have no power over. In fact if they tried to stick their nose in Visa/Mastercard could just pull them altogether. As they are only their regulations (bit like a retailer warranty)

Maestro only had 3 chargebacks. Non receipt (international purchases only) CPA (but needed proof of cancelation from retailer) & a fraud when 3rd party used card.

It would be nice if people would stop the "go to the FOS" shtick every tine there is a disagreement with a customer and a financial institution.  The lack of knowledge on this subforum in that particular regard would be comical if it wasn't tragic.

They have been repeatedly advised on such matters, but make 10+ page threads due to their ignorance.

You are right about the chargeback process, as usual, and the idea that the customer of a bank could make an FOS claim against the scheme provider is so utterly comical, it could only come from the lack of knowledge that this subforum shows.

The customer has no contractually relationship with Mastercard or Visa.  So how is the FOS going to adjudicate that?

born_again

FeaturelessVoid said:

You are right about the chargeback process, as usual, and the idea that the customer of a bank could make an FOS claim against the scheme provider is so utterly comical, it could only come from the lack of knowledge that this subforum shows.

The customer has no contractually relationship with Mastercard or Visa.  So how is the FOS going to adjudicate that?

The idea of the complaint, or as many people see it is that the bank will just roll over & cough up as it's not worth the fee that they get charged if it goes to FOS. Personally I wish that banks would say NO more often & stand the FOS cost, as it would discourage the whole complaint just for the sake of a complaint. Some of the complaints we have to deal with are just pointless & they are only done because the customer does not like the answer they got to their request. They want their money back end off story.. Even if you are right that they have no claim.

Had people complain that they entered their pin, but forgot to pick up item, so they want their money back... Despite it being their fault & nothing to do with the bank. 🤦‍♀️

FOS only adjudicate on the banks actions & if they have broken the rules. Clearly where they are talking Card Regulations, so long as they have been followed that is the end of the matter.