Unmarried Uncle, no children who inherits if he doesn't make a will?

Spendless

My husband's Uncle F has never married or had children. His parents are dead. He is one of 7 siblings. 2 siblings live overseas. A further 2 siblings have already died. Of the 2 siblings that have died, one (my MIL)  was married  and had 2 children. The other deceased sibling ( Uncle J ) had a rather more colourful love life and several children to different woman, some of whom he was married to, others he wasn't (children born in the 1970s if that makes any difference). One of the children Uncle J  had (from a marriage) has also died and had 2 children himself, who are in their 20s.

Uncle F owns a house outright (value around £120K) and maybe a little cash (enough to cover a funeral). He keeps toying with the idea of making a will but hasn't so far. He talks to DH about who he'd want to inherit if he did. DH wishes to make him aware of who inherits if he dies intestate and then leave the decision to him if he wishes to make a will but is  a bit confused who would inherit in place of  Uncle F's deceased siblings. According to this link https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will  my husband and his sister would inherit their Mum's share. What about the children of Uncle J? Does it make a difference that he was married to some of their Mums and not to others? What about the son of Uncle J who has already died but had children themselves?   

JGB1955

AIUI from Intestacy Rules - What Happens if you Don't Have a Will? (graysons.co.uk) the estate would be split between the surviving 4 siblings and the children of the 2 deceased siblings.  Uncle J's surviving children would inherit, but NOT his grandchildren.  I'm not sure about the illegitimate (such an old-fashioned term these days!) nieces/nephews.

Savvy_Sue

If you and your husband can't follow the rules of intestacy in this case, then that indicates that what will happen is a horrific mess which will take the Administrator a long time to untangle. Just the number of people involved, and the complication of beneficiaries living abroad, would make my head spin. 

Did the various deceased men acknowledge paternity in all cases? I think that matters more than being married to the mothers.

But the message to Uncle F is simple: "you've said you want X, Y and Z to benefit after you've died. The only way that can happen is if you make a will. If you don't make a will, Uncle Tom Cobley and all will have to be identified, traced, and your estate shared in varying proportions. It will be a massive job."

And if Uncle is expecting that your DH will take on that job, I'd make it clear he won't. Well, I wouldn't. 

Marcon

Spendless said:

My husband's Uncle F has never married or had children. His parents are dead. He is one of 7 siblings. 2 siblings live overseas. A further 2 siblings have already died. Of the 2 siblings that have died, one (my MIL)  was married  and had 2 children. The other deceased sibling ( Uncle J ) had a rather more colourful love life and several children to different woman, some of whom he was married to, others he wasn't (children born in the 1970s if that makes any difference). One of the children Uncle J  had (from a marriage) has also died and had 2 children himself, who are in their 20s.

Uncle F owns a house outright (value around £120K) and maybe a little cash (enough to cover a funeral). He keeps toying with the idea of making a will but hasn't so far. He talks to DH about who he'd want to inherit if he did. DH wishes to make him aware of who inherits if he dies intestate and then leave the decision to him if he wishes to make a will but is  a bit confused who would inherit in place of  Uncle F's deceased siblings. According to this link https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will  my husband and his sister would inherit their Mum's share. What about the children of Uncle J? Does it make a difference that he was married to some of their Mums and not to others? What about the son of Uncle J who has already died but had children themselves?   

I suggest your husband does something which might make everyone's life easier: comes up with the name and contact details of a local solicitor who can make this wretched will and be done with it. Point out that if Uncle F doesn't make a will, there will be one hell of a mess and a lot of his hard-earned assets will be taken up using tracing agents and other costly assistance. There's actually no need to physically go and see the solicitor, but by choosing a local one it gives dithering Uncle F the option to do so.

getmore4less

Once you get to siblings(full blood) then AIUI from various references  the rules of per stirpes apply  and you have to follow the issue chain.

although not so sure as the legislations says different 1.v in this link.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/15-16/23/section/46

Flugelhorn

getmore4less said:

Once you get to siblings(full blood) then AIUI the rules of per stirpes apply  and you have to follow the issue chain. 

that would be it - the trouble will come with Uncle J's family and trying to work out who is eligible and what to do if others appear out of the  woodwork

Spendless

Savvy_Sue said:

If you and your husband can't follow the rules of intestacy in this case, then that indicates that what will happen is a horrific mess which will take the Administrator a long time to untangle. Just the number of people involved, and the complication of beneficiaries living abroad, would make my head spin. 

Did the various deceased men acknowledge paternity in all cases? I think that matters more than being married to the mothers.

But the message to Uncle F is simple: "you've said you want X, Y and Z to benefit after you've died. The only way that can happen is if you make a will. If you don't make a will, Uncle Tom Cobley and all will have to be identified, traced, and your estate shared in varying proportions. It will be a massive job."

And if Uncle is expecting that your DH will take on that job, I'd make it clear he won't. Well, I wouldn't. 

Yes, DH has tried more than once to have this conversation. It's the reason for this post. Uncle F talks of leaving a will  to 'all his nephews and nieces'  DH has said he would need to name them not only because of the complication of Uncle J's children but also because another sibling Uncle D, when he divorced his wife, she went on to have a child to another man (half sibling of Uncle D's children) and he includes him when talking of where he'd like his money to go and DH points out unless he's actually named in a will he wouldn't because he's not officially his nephew regardless of how Uncle F views him.

That's why we're trying to establish exactly who does inherit. I've just spoken to DH about which of his first cousins from Uncle J are from marriages and was he aware he was the father of others. He said one of his male cousins, he isn't sure if Uncle J knew he was the father though family members have always accepted he is. In addition


A daughter of Uncle J contacted the family over 25 years ago. She was getting married and wanted to invite her bioloical Dad to her wedding. He had already died. My husband's sister was briefly in touch with this lady but then lost her contact details in a house move. DH says his sister has recently been trying to find her again. Again it is accepted in the family that Uncle J is her father. 


When Uncle D's children started school, another Mum in the playground approached their Mum having noticed the children and what they looked like and queried if they were connected to <family surname> on hearing they were, said she'd thought so because the father of her daughter was Uncle J. and she could see the family resemblance. This playground Mum was described as being 'from the travelling community'. No idea if this is correct or not but if so could make tracking down very difficult. 

Unfortunately the only person who'd be able to provide enough details of the offspring of Uncle J and whether he knew about them is my late MIL, as she was the only sibling older than Uncle J, the others being younger and/or moved abroad. It is my MIL who has told me the 2 stories above (both accepted within the family as being true). 


Uncle F talks about his will to be left to his 'neices and nephews' he isn't including the 2 nieces I've mentioned above but is (as I've mentioned)  the son of his ex sis in law, who isn't actually his nephew.

Though I've known all this detail for many years, I agree trying to explain it all on here is making my head spin. I now think DH needs to try again and also point out that if other relatives die prior to Uncle F doing so, he won't even be leaving money to where he's hoping eg if DH died before him, I guess their Mum's share would all go to DH's sister instead. 

Does anyone know the month that you can have a Will done cheaper?   I'm wondering if that's an angle to try and persuade him to get on with doing one.  

Stubod

..if the will is fairly simple then you could just DIY using one of the many online form available. Does not have to be complicated or need a solicitor as long as he is clear who he wants to leave things to. eg name 5 people and split everything equally between them, (ie don't mention actual amounts, just use percentages). As long as it it signed and witnessed by a couple of "non beneficiaries" it can be fairly straghtforwaard and low cost. (+ Make sure the executor knows where the original or any copies are).

thegreenone

Uncle F needs to write down names of his 'nieces and nephews' to whom his wishes to leave money.

@Spendless - it's Free Wills month now.

I would strongly suggest, in these circumstances, Uncle F does not DIY but yes, to state percentages to family and a set amount to the charity doing the Will work..

Spendless

I've had a google and found this. https://www.angliaresearch.co.uk/unentitled-relatives-when-is-a-relative-not-an-heir/

Illegitimate children

It is increasingly common for children to be born outside marriage, although historically when this happened it would often have been kept secret. An illegitimate child of the deceased, as a close full blood relative, might reasonably expect to inherit in the case of an intestacy. The Family Law Reform Act 1987 provides that illegitimate children have the same inheritance rights as legitimate children. However, problems can arise in practice. If a deceased father is not named as a parent on the birth certificate, their child will face difficulties in establishing any right through paternity. Other evidence can be employed, but unless incontrovertible DNA results can be obtained a claimant may not succeed in establishing him or herself as a child of the deceased.

Spendless

thegreenone said:

Uncle F needs to write down names of his 'nieces and nephews' to whom his wishes to leave money.

@Spendless - it's Free Wills month now.

I would strongly suggest, in these circumstances, Uncle F does not DIY but yes, to state percentages to family and a set amount to the charity doing the Will work..

Thanks. Put this suggestion to Mr S, who said he had also been thinking along the same lines to tell Uncle F. Maybe if he also tells him of the potential nightmare of trying to track down Uncle J's children that aren't from marriages and establishing if Uncle J really is their father, then it might be enough to sway him into making a will.