Fight with the council…advice needed!

Twister9

Apologies if this is in the wrong place, but I can’t figure out where it might sit and just want to know if there are any legal minded people available who can give advice on a very specific, VERY frustrating fight my partner is having with our local council over a council tax refund they handed out to a fraudster posing as him on web chat! 

To try and cut a long story short, he split with his ex at the start of 2020 and went from a joint council tax account to a single one as he stayed in their house. Accidentally, he paid 5 months worth of council tax payments into the joint account without realising. They did not send a chaser to him about the individual account. In September, someone went onto the councils web chat facility and gave a convoluted story about the split, had both council tax account numbers and both names and that was all they needed to request a refund, they just gave a bank account number and sort code (claiming it was his ex’s account) of where they wanted the money sent back to and that was that (thanks to GDPR my partner was able to get the full web chat transcript).

A big red flag for me is that the adviser apparently checked both account numbers yet never mentioned one was 6 months in credit and one was 6 months in arrears! How did he fail to spot that?? Anyway…in the following confusion over the individual account arrears chaser emails, single person discount etc, and my partner not realising he’d paid into the wrong account, it became obvious to my partner something had happened, and he realised somehow someone had gotten almost £500 of his council tax payments refunded. The irony is, no one will help my partner because technically speaking he isn’t involved, he hasn’t lost any money and he hasn’t been the victim of fraud, the council have, but they are refusing to try any channel to recover the money outside of taking my partner to court to get the council tax “arrears” paid! 

As we have the bank account details of the fraudsters account we even tried the bank (Barclays) but they can only speak to the council as it was their bank the money came from. My partners ex (who supposedly holds the account the money went to…but she doesn’t!) even tried speaking to the bank, thinking someone may have fraudulently opened an account in her name (as the fraudster posing on the web chat have her name as the names account holder to refund the money to), but they won’t speak to her, which suggests to me that the account is not in her name, so what the hell were the council doing sending money to that account?? 

Anyway, this has even gone to the ombudsmen who claim the council followed their procedures correctly and there was nothing they could do. Does anyone have any legal advice on this subject…it’s around £500, and I have no idea how much it would increase by if we try to go to court to argue this! It all just seems SO unfair (I know life isn’t but anyway…). 

Help?! We really don’t know what to do for the best, but paying council tax twice when they were the ones who made the error just seems like a very bitter pill to swallow…and also I guess this is a warning to everyone as I’m completely convinced this was an inside job, it is such an obscure loophole I’m certain only someone within the council would be able to exploit it…but that’s another issue!! 

Any help anyone can give would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance. 

pinkshoes

It all seems very suspicious... a joint council tax account, he pays £500 by accident, but the only other person who would feasibly have access to the account knows nothing about it?!

I would be asking for a copy of the refunds procedure from the council, especially as they have refunded to a different bank account which seems rather odd. Normally, they can ONLY refund to the account it was paid from. They would NOT be able to pay into another random account. From recollection, I'm sure when I had a refund before and had closed my joint bank account, my refund was then via cheque as they refused to pay it into my own account. 

Which council is it? 

Twister9

Thanks for the reply! It is HIGHLY suspicious (I’m convinced it is an inside job). They seem to have a bloody answer for everything but their answer to the account issue was my partner pays himself every month through the bank transfer system, he doesn’t have a direct debit set up…but as you say, they should have sent a cheque, not just paid out to a random bank account! It’s Southampton city council. 

pinkshoes

I can't find any information from Southampton City Council about refunds policy.

I would be WRITING to them and asking for a response within 7 days for a copy of their council tax refunds policy. 

I would be wanting to see written documentation that their policy allows refunds to an unverified account, otherwise I would be pushing for the council to refund the money as you believe them to have been negligent in their actions. 

I would have been furious if my ex had been able to get our extra council tax refunded into some random account!

CIS

In most cases like this, and I've seen more than a few over the years, one of the outgoing parties has received the closing bill and seen the credit. They then call up and, easily passing the checks, ask for the refund.

If you're 100% certain it isn't her, then it's almost certainly someone who has had access to the council tax bills etc and knows the parties involved. An internal fraud isn't impossible, but it's low down the list of possibilities as the council side is heavily audited to the point where they can see who has access to what screen and when. A staff member would be taking a major risk with getting caught. I would have expected this to be checked as part of any ombudsman's case but he should be able to request data of times & dates of when his council tax account was accessed from the council side.

Twister9

We are certain it isn’t his ex, they actually have a good friendly relationship and still have a joint account and a large amount of savings together! The £500 he paid in was coming from their joint account so no reason for her to take it back (I have asked…a few times…). We did wonder if it might have been the postie as all they needed was the council tax account refs and names! But considering there is proof it is not her bank account the money got paid out to, and it’s not his…both of them have tried to speak to Barclays fraud team but as neither of them have ever had an account with Barclays there is nothing the bank will tell them other than the council needs to speak to them…the actual account was opened at the Leicester branch of Barclays…neither of them have ever been there! I still don’t understand how/why the council won’t accept it’s their error and not his?? As far as I can tell, all the council has to do is open a “fraudulent transaction” issue with Barclays and they would refund the money! The ombudsmen was satisfied the council procedures were followed, even though they actually weren’t, as in the transcript the adviser asked for an email confirmation of the account details and they never got that! It all just seems so wrong! The police don’t want to know, the ombudsmen didn’t care, our MP doesn’t care, the local paper would only run the story if we go to court and risk who knows how much in court fees just to probably be told he has to pay up anyway.

Grumpy_chap

Twister9 said:

the actual account was opened at the Leicester branch of Barclays…neither of them have ever been there! 

It might be an online account.
I have an online account with Barclays and the "branch" is Leicester.
Just for avoidance of doubt, I never received £500 Council Tax refund from Southampton Council.

sheramber

However the council transferred the money would the name of the account holder not be given and checked?

Twister9

That is what we thought, which is why we believed someone must have created a fraudulent account in his ex’s name, but they have both tried contacting Barclays fraud team and they won’t talk to either of them because she has never had an account with them! 

Ergates

sheramber said:

However the council transferred the money would the name of the account holder not be given and checked?

Assuming both the Council's bank and Barclays have CoP up and working properly, then the name of the account holder would have been sent and verified, but you may still be able to push through the payment if the names don't match (you'll just get a bit warning and won't get refunded if it's fraud)

born_again

Twister9 said:

We are certain it isn’t his ex, they actually have a good friendly relationship and still have a joint account and a large amount of savings together! The £500 he paid in was coming from their joint account so no reason for her to take it back (I have asked…a few times…). We did wonder if it might have been the postie as all they needed was the council tax account refs and names! But considering there is proof it is not her bank account the money got paid out to, and it’s not his…both of them have tried to speak to Barclays fraud team but as neither of them have ever had an account with Barclays there is nothing the bank will tell them other than the council needs to speak to them…the actual account was opened at the Leicester branch of Barclays…neither of them have ever been there! I still don’t understand how/why the council won’t accept it’s their error and not his?? As far as I can tell, all the council has to do is open a “fraudulent transaction” issue with Barclays and they would refund the money! The ombudsmen was satisfied the council procedures were followed, even though they actually weren’t, as in the transcript the adviser asked for an email confirmation of the account details and they never got that! It all just seems so wrong! The police don’t want to know, the ombudsmen didn’t care, our MP doesn’t care, the local paper would only run the story if we go to court and risk who knows how much in court fees just to probably be told he has to pay up anyway.

Not quite that simple. No funds in the account, then it's lost cause. Also council instigated payment. So there is a chance Barclays would not be interested.

Council staff. Don't think so, far too much to risk for £500
Postie, again don't think so. How often do you get council tax letters?
Does Ex have a new partner or a friend. That shall we say is not quite all they seem?

You could try police, but that would be a long shot & I would expect them to say it's a civil matter.