PCM and Gladstones

_Clacker_

Hello all,
Last year my wife and & I parked in a local Shell garage, who's parking is completely unbarriered, with only a small area of foot high wall, and always empty or nearly empty (as can be seen on countless streetview entries).
We bought a few things in their shop, then noticed the community shop across the road had nice watermelons, so bought one, then left - all in around 5 mins. £100 ticket in the post.

It turns out the microprint on the wall from PCM states if you leave the forecourt you invalidate your status as a customer and will receive a fine.

In my incredulity and naivete at the time I just clicked the default challenge - which obviously just bounced off.

I contacted the garage but the guy said "yeah lots of people get stung by that, but nothing we can do, Shell arranges the parking".

I posted on the Garages google entry the hazard just to warn other motorists, and Shell responded asking me to contact them. They agreed this seemed extreme and would help to look into dropping it. They finally got back to me but only having repeated the initial challenge I had done, which now meant I was past the "discount" point.
I then challenged them again and got another more senior Shell rep who investigated, then got back and said "Sorry, nothing we can really do because the garage arranges the parking".

So one of them was lying to us.

So now we are past the Trace debt recovery letter and have had a letter from Gladstones, who as I have read are all tied unscrupulously with PCM.

Should I respond to the Gladstones "bot" letter? - ie is there any point?

Besides the fact Shell have duped me into this point; - 

1 . Both my wife and I are insured on the car and regularly swap around, are both seen in the picture outside the car, and have no memory of who was "the driver"
(My only concern is that I clicked the initial challenge after receiving the first letter.)

2. The parking is utterly extreme compared to other local private parking in actually busy areas, so the tiny notices of rules are completely inadequate.

3. The extreme nature of the rules given how permanently sparse the parking area is surely then an unfair contract, which legally has to favour the customers - ie Parking contracts are there to ensure that there is guaranteed parking for customers - this one is purely to make money.


So what should I do? is there any point in responding to these pirates? (who we read regularly are dismissed by judges.)

My head is still spinning a year on at how nonsensical this is.

Thanks for the help.

(Reposted with help from MSE due to accidentally putting personal info in)

go-on-then

How do they know that someone left the site in question,  have they a video of that ???  Which site was this ?   it may be on another thread which could help you 

Have you checked the pcn to see if POFA compliant or not ?? 

Do not disclose the driver.

Not_A_Hope

If the letter from Gladstones is a begging letter you can ignore. If it is a letter before claim then you need to follow the advice in the Newbies thread on the first page if you are prepared to challenge their invoice in court. I wouldn't pay them a penny unless a judge told me I had to. Get photos of those signs. I would complain again to the garage showing them the response from Shell and tell them you, your relatives and friends will never use their garage again unless they cancel this unfair additional £100 charge. 

Trainerman

 Leaving aside ideas of unfair contracts; even if there was a contract it would be with the driver and maybe it was the passenger who left, if anyone did.  As go-on-then says, do they actually have video ?

_Clacker_

Thanks so much all!

They had a still from an aimed camera showing the pair of us crossing the knee high wall back into completely empty parking bays..... The cost of such a camera system and person to aim it obviously paid for by stung customers. 

As far as POFA, I'm a little confused. The opening letter does state its a charge to keeper and it is given "in line with Schedule 4 of the Protections of Freedom Act 2012", and it did arrive within 14 days.

go-on-then

Wonder if pics were taken of you in the shop spending money ??

There could be any number of reasons why you are stood where you are in their pics.  Are you still in the parking area ?? 

go-on-then

Do you have a pic of the signage they use,   you say it says something about  '  if you leave the forecourt you invalidate your status as a customer and will receive a fine..' 

Interested to see the exact wording pls.

D_P_Dance

Leaving site is almost impossible for a PPC to win ayt court.  .  Have you complained to your MP?

_Clacker_

Quite a small sign on the wall of the station and another small one on a lamp post.

Not_A_Hope

Would be useful to to measure the actual size of the size and height of the letters and compare it with what is now in the governments imminent Code of Practice for parking signs. Have you got photos of the location of the signs that would demonstrate you had no opportunity to 'consider the offer' which is a key element of their breach of contract argument in court

Not_A_Hope

To comply with POFA PPCs have to use the exact words contained in the POFA Act. They cannot just refer to the Act itself to make the keeper liable for the PCN. Best advice is to never reveal the identity of the driver in any appeal. You could post a copy of the PCN redacting any personally identifiable information.