Traders refusing proper invoice for emergency boiler replacement

src93

Hi everyone, I'd be grateful for advice on how I can help my elderly grandparents whose boiler caught fire and have been ripped off for thousands of pounds getting it replaced. I'm on the verge of getting most of it back for them but am being blocked at the final hurdle by slippery behaviour from traders who carried out the works. 

Almost a year ago they had a routine boiler inspection organised by their energy provider (one of the Big Six), the result of which was the engineer flagging up serious problems with the unit but telling them he had to leave and arrange for a colleague to come back the next day - supposedly as he wasn't qualified enough to fix it and lacked the parts. The next day, another engineer was sent who carried out some repairs and declared it safe. About a day or two after that, they found the heating had cut out completely and opened the boiler cupboard to find it had caught fire internally (nearly burning a hole through the metal casing). 

They contacted the provider and asked for an emergency call-out to replace it (which they were entitlted to as their deal with the provider included boiler cover) but were told no engineers were available in time. They were told to arrange this through a third party and that they would be refunded for the works by the provider. 

The third party engineers attended and confirmed that the unit had caught fire and was beyond repair, concluding that this must have been due to shoddy work by the Big Six co's engineer. They then arranged to replace the boiler unit, and somewhere along the way convinced my grandparents they should also carry out a powerflush and replace the radiators throughout their property. I later learned these works altogether totalled more than £6,000, which seemed suspiciously high to me but I bit my tongue as I thought we would get most of it back from the provider company.  

Mind-bogglingly, the provider initially refused to refund anything, refusing to acknowledge their customer service agent's promise of a refund or that the unit had even caught fire, but I eventually managed to back them down with evidence eg photos showing the obvious fire damage. (God forbid anyone who doesn't have a smartphone etc. has to deal with this company.) They agreed to pay the cost of the new boiler unit and the labour to replace it but not the powerflush or radiators as these were optional 'extras', so we'd need to provide a breakdown to show what the boiler replacement cost by itself.

Unfortunately, the third-party traders' invoice only showed a lump sum price for all the works (scrawled in barely legible handwriting to boot). I told them what we'd been told by the Big Six Co. and they agreed to provide a breakdown.

That was now over six months ago. At first the traders gave us increasingly hard-to-believe excuses as to why they had to put it off, ranging from weeks-long stints with Covid, to long holidays away, to multiple lengthy stints in hospital. Finally, about three weeks ago, we got a 'revised invoice' which provided a breakdown of the overall charge by materials costs (£3.2k), labour charges (£2k) & VAT - but no distinction between the boiler replacement and the powerflush/radiators, so it's totally useless. They're now giving us new outlandish excuses as to why they in fact can't provide any more detail on the invoice, e.g. claiming their IT system only allows one correction to be made to an invoice or stating they're "confused" about why we actually need this information (despite having agreed to provide it). 

I'm at my wit's end, is there anything I can do to force this information out of them? Government guidelines state that invoices should provide a price per good or service but I don't know whether that's enough to threaten them with court action. I suspect they're afraid that the full invoice would expose how much they're overcharged my grandparents but it's beyond me why they would resist this when they know we're going to be refunded for the boiler works by the energy provider. I'm furious that they used the boiler fire as an excuse to sell a vulnerable elderly couple new radiators and charged them so much for works which took barely two days, but have kept things very civil and patient the whole way through as I'm focused solely on getting a proper invoice.

A side note: the third party insists the powerflush was essential in order for the new boiler to function, but the Big Six Co is refusing to accept that. Is there anything I can do to make the company agree to refund those works as well?

DB1904

I think you're only entitled to an invoice if you're vat registered. 

Section62

src93 said:

Hi everyone, I'd be grateful for advice on how I can help my elderly grandparents whose boiler caught fire and have been ripped off for thousands of pounds getting it replaced. I'm on the verge of getting most of it back for them but am being blocked at the final hurdle by slippery behaviour from traders who carried out the works. 

Almost a year ago they had a routine boiler inspection organised by their energy provider (one of the Big Six), the result of which was the engineer flagging up serious problems with the unit but telling them he had to leave and arrange for a colleague to come back the next day - supposedly as he wasn't qualified enough to fix it and lacked the parts. The next day, another engineer was sent who carried out some repairs and declared it safe. About a day or two after that, they found the heating had cut out completely and opened the boiler cupboard to find it had caught fire internally (nearly burning a hole through the metal casing). 

They contacted the provider and asked for an emergency call-out to replace it (which they were entitlted to as their deal with the provider included boiler cover) but were told no engineers were available in time. They were told to arrange this through a third party and that they would be refunded for the works by the provider. 

The third party engineers attended and confirmed that the unit had caught fire and was beyond repair, concluding that this must have been due to shoddy work by the Big Six co's engineer. They then arranged to replace the boiler unit, and somewhere along the way convinced my grandparents they should also carry out a powerflush and replace the radiators throughout their property. I later learned these works altogether totalled more than £6,000, which seemed suspiciously high to me but I bit my tongue as I thought we would get most of it back from the provider company.  

Mind-bogglingly, the provider initially refused to refund anything, refusing to acknowledge their customer service agent's promise of a refund or that the unit had even caught fire, but I eventually managed to back them down with evidence eg photos showing the obvious fire damage. (God forbid anyone who doesn't have a smartphone etc. has to deal with this company.) They agreed to pay the cost of the new boiler unit and the labour to replace it but not the powerflush or radiators as these were optional 'extras', so we'd need to provide a breakdown to show what the boiler replacement cost by itself.

Unfortunately, the third-party traders' invoice only showed a lump sum price for all the works (scrawled in barely legible handwriting to boot). I told them what we'd been told by the Big Six Co. and they agreed to provide a breakdown.

That was now over six months ago. At first the traders gave us increasingly hard-to-believe excuses as to why they had to put it off, ranging from weeks-long stints with Covid, to long holidays away, to multiple lengthy stints in hospital. Finally, about three weeks ago, we got a 'revised invoice' which provided a breakdown of the overall charge by materials costs (£3.2k), labour charges (£2k) & VAT - but no distinction between the boiler replacement and the powerflush/radiators, so it's totally useless. They're now giving us new outlandish excuses as to why they in fact can't provide any more detail on the invoice, e.g. claiming their IT system only allows one correction to be made to an invoice or stating they're "confused" about why we actually need this information (despite having agreed to provide it). 

I'm at my wit's end, is there anything I can do to force this information out of them? Government guidelines state that invoices should provide a price per good or service but I don't know whether that's enough to threaten them with court action. I suspect they're afraid that the full invoice would expose how much they're overcharged my grandparents but it's beyond me why they would resist this when they know we're going to be refunded for the boiler works by the energy provider. I'm furious that they used the boiler fire as an excuse to sell a vulnerable elderly couple new radiators and charged them so much for works which took barely two days, but have kept things very civil and patient the whole way through as I'm focused solely on getting a proper invoice.

A side note: the third party insists the powerflush was essential in order for the new boiler to function, but the Big Six Co is refusing to accept that. Is there anything I can do to make the company agree to refund those works as well?

How much do you think a boiler replacement carried out on an 'emergency' basis should cost?

What would you seek to claim in the court action?

Is the boiler cover an insurance product for which you could make a complaint to the FOS?

BUFF

src93 said:

A side note: the third party insists the powerflush was essential in order for the new boiler to function, but the Big Six Co is refusing to accept that. Is there anything I can do to make the company agree to refund those works as well?

It's normally part of the requirement for the warranty on a new boiler that the system be flushed but not necessrily a powerflush e.g.
"Prior to starting work, the system must be thoroughly flushed using a propriety cleanser such as Sentinel X300 to eliminate any foreign matter and contamination e.g. metal filings, solder particles, oil, grease etc."

What does the manual/install guide for his boiler say?

theoretica

Is there a possibility that simply changing what you ask for could solve this - as they have already been paid, an invoice may not be appropriate - but an itemised receipt might be easier for them to produce.

Sandtree

DB1904 said:

I think you're only entitled to an invoice if you're vat registered. 

To be pedantic... if both parties are VAT registered and its a B2B transaction

Doozergirl

If it makes you feel any better, £6k doesn't sound like robbery for what they have.  If the rads were old and inefficient, they will feel the benefit of having new ones and if it were my house I'd have done the same.  

I'm not sure why the cover provider can't agree a price with you based on the % of their own quote that the boiler change would occupy for the same services.

Common sense can apply here.  It seems to be rapidly disappearing in the 'computer says no' culture. 

rach_k

If they're saying it's IT problems preventing it, have you offered to do it for them?!  Get them to give you a verbal breakdown of the costs (they must know, or at least be able to tell you roughly).  Type it up yourself and then take it to them and get somebody to photocopy it onto headed paper and sign it, or just sign it.  

It's maybe a bit dodgy, but it sounds like the cover provider is being intentionally difficult too, so I wouldn't feel guilty about it.  

DB1904

Sandtree said:

DB1904 said:

I think you're only entitled to an invoice if you're vat registered. 

To be pedantic... if both parties are VAT registered and its a B2B transaction

Given it's not on the consumer rights board does it matter?

Sandtree

DB1904 said:

Sandtree said:

DB1904 said:

I think you're only entitled to an invoice if you're vat registered. 

To be pedantic... if both parties are VAT registered and its a B2B transaction

Given it's not on the consumer rights board does it matter?

To a pedant? 

macman

OP, why didn't you let the building insurers deal with this from the outset under fire damage? That's what the premium is paid for.