PIP face to face assessment - Need some advice.

Spoonie_Turtle

If in doubt, go back to the descriptors.  https://pipinfo.net/ may be useful for easy reference.

For planning/following journeys, you might look at descriptor d, possibly f?

d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points

[e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points]

f. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points

E. Is if you are too anxious (but they might mix that up with depression) to go anywhere even if you had someone with you, on more than half the days.
If, on more than half the days, you need someone with you and can go out if you have that help, then D or F may apply.  


For engaging with people, again going back to the descriptors, the question is which one(s), if any, apply more than half the time:  https://pipinfo.net/activities/engaging-with-other-people-face-to-face
The case law for that may be useful, but if you feel you have a low chance of that scoring anything, maybe focus on the other activities and come back to this one if you have time.  It is worth mentioning, again for the consistent and accurate picture, but prioritise the areas you feel stand a greater chance of scoring.


The letter template … if it works for you, that's fine.  It didn't really work for me so I just used the DWP form, typed up the thorough explanation about why I disagree with their decision and which descriptors I knew applied to me and why, then attached it. 
Make sure your name and N.I. Number are at the top of each attached sheet though whatever format you use, just in case they get separated.

SaitenMar

Spoonie_Turtle said:

The letter template … if it works for you, that's fine.  It didn't really work for me so I just used the DWP form, typed up the thorough explanation about why I disagree with their decision and which descriptors I knew applied to me and why, then attached it. 
Make sure your name and N.I. Number are at the top of each attached sheet though whatever format you use, just in case they get separated.

Could I still fill out and send both? Would they look at both or just take the one form into account? 

Thanks again Spoonie_Turtle. 

poppy12345

SaitenMar said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

The letter template … if it works for you, that's fine.  It didn't really work for me so I just used the DWP form, typed up the thorough explanation about why I disagree with their decision and which descriptors I knew applied to me and why, then attached it. 
Make sure your name and N.I. Number are at the top of each attached sheet though whatever format you use, just in case they get separated.

Could I still fill out and send both? Would they look at both or just take the one form into account? 

Thanks again Spoonie_Turtle. 

You don't need to send them both.

Alice_Holt

SaitenMar said:

Hello, sorry to bother you all again but I need some help on clarifying some areas I'm still not sure about. A lot of the information and guides sometimes seem to contradict each other. So I'd appreciate some idea on how to approach this. 

First off is Mixing with other people:
I did previously make mention of anxiety and panic attacks I had suffered in the past when in social situations and how I needed calming etc but from what I can read it isn't worth mentioning this as it's not taken into account. So I'm leaning more to not mentioning this in my letter. 

Secondly is Planning and following a journey: 
The more I read about how this is looked at the more confused I get. A lot of sites offering help seem to focus on when it was called Going Out (such as the Citizen's Advice guide) and they seem to be two very differently judged activities. So whilst I need help to follow a journey in case I get lost or hurt myself (especially if it's an unfamiliar place), this doesn't seem to be an accepted criteria. So do I simply pick You can plan how to get somewhere, and find your way there, without any help. Even if this isn't exactly the case for me, yes I can plan a journey but finding my way to a location requires the help of my parents or family and due to anxiety I have had panic attacks at locations I'm not comfortable with or familiar enough with. That's not to mention that when I've gone through a depressive episode I don't like going out at all. I'm confused by the criteria. 

       Social engagement face to face.

      "...anxiety and panic attacks I had suffered in the past when in social situations and how I needed calming etc"

         If you still were experiencing anxiety at the time of the assessment when mixing with other people one to one or in small groups, then explain this on the MR. This is what the activity is about - the ability to reliably engage with other people. If you were experiencing psychological distress (such as anxiety & panic attacks) when trying to interact with others, and this caused you to need prompting / support - then you weren't able to engage reliably and should score points for this activity.

        From DRH* - "This activity considers your ability to engage socially, which means to interact with others in a contextually and socially appropriate manner, understand body language and establish relationships. The activity should consider your ability to engage with people generally, not just people you know well. It should consider your ability to engage one to one or with a small group." If your anxiety and panic attacks mean that your ability to interact with others face to face is impeded, then explain this on the form and give examples.   



Planning and following a journey
   
  "...but finding my way to a location requires the help of my parents or family and due to anxiety I have had panic attacks at locations I'm not comfortable with or familiar enough with."

   This suggests that you may not be able to reliably follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without the help of another person on the majority of days.  (1d). So fully explain this on the form and give examples.

" Base your answer on what you can manage most days. You should explain if:

• your stress, anxiety or other mental health condition make it difficult for you to go out and follow the route of a journey
• you find it hard to cope with large crowds or loud noises  
• you find it hard to cope with unexpected changes to a route of a journey - for example, roadworks or diversions   
• you only attempt a journey during quiet times of the day - for example, when the shops aren't busy or there's less traffic on the road 
• someone helps or encourages you to go out
• someone goes out with you
• your mental health condition makes using a bus or train difficult"
  
  * Disability Rights Handbook.

peteuk

SaitenMar said:

For mobility: 

Planning and following a journey - 0 points. You can plan and follow a route of a journey unaided.
Can't really figure out how they came to this decision as I explained in detail that I need help from others in following a journey for my own safety, other than the fact I struggle to walk I have also fallen in the past and need someone with me so I don't get hurt.

 Planning -  usually this focuses on mental health rather than physical.   Does your anxiety stop you from leaving the house, if so provide real life examples of when this has happen eg. missed gp or hospital appointments.   As for falls with planning and following a journey, these are only really considered when the fall is due to a sensory or cognitive impairment.  Safety and falls due to physical impairment generally come under activity 12. 

Do you have a drivers license?  If so this is enough to show cognitive and sensory ability to plan a journey, if your arthritis was the only condition (eg a physical rather than mental health condition).   I appreciate this is not the case, however if you struggled to understand the assessor and feel you may have been misunderstood or misheard then as others have said this should be questioned. 

poppy12345

peteuk said:

SaitenMar said:

For mobility: 

Planning and following a journey - 0 points. You can plan and follow a route of a journey unaided.
Can't really figure out how they came to this decision as I explained in detail that I need help from others in following a journey for my own safety, other than the fact I struggle to walk I have also fallen in the past and need someone with me so I don't get hurt.

Do you have a drivers license?  If so this is enough to show cognitive and sensory ability to plan a journey,

I disagree with that sorry. Having a driving license doesn't mean a person is capable of planning a route of a journey.

peteuk

poppy12345 said:

peteuk said:

SaitenMar said:

For mobility: 

Planning and following a journey - 0 points. You can plan and follow a route of a journey unaided.
Can't really figure out how they came to this decision as I explained in detail that I need help from others in following a journey for my own safety, other than the fact I struggle to walk I have also fallen in the past and need someone with me so I don't get hurt.

Do you have a drivers license?  If so this is enough to show cognitive and sensory ability to plan a journey,

I disagree with that sorry. Having a driving license doesn't mean a person is capable of planning a route of a journey.

Totally agree, it means nothing (Sorry I should have said this wasn't my opinion) however youll be surprised as to what can be used as evidence to discount evidence. 

poppy12345

peteuk said:

poppy12345 said:

peteuk said:

SaitenMar said:

For mobility: 

Planning and following a journey - 0 points. You can plan and follow a route of a journey unaided.
Can't really figure out how they came to this decision as I explained in detail that I need help from others in following a journey for my own safety, other than the fact I struggle to walk I have also fallen in the past and need someone with me so I don't get hurt.

Do you have a drivers license?  If so this is enough to show cognitive and sensory ability to plan a journey,

I disagree with that sorry. Having a driving license doesn't mean a person is capable of planning a route of a journey.

Totally agree, it means nothing (Sorry I should have said this wasn't my opinion) however youll be surprised as to what can be used as evidence to discount evidence. 

Ah ok, no worries. Nope, i'm not at all surprised. I know of the silly copy and paste reasons for refusals.

Robbie64

I thought the assumptions that the health professionals sometimes make was where someone drove a car rather than just having a driving licence. Someone could have held a licence for years but not driven for quite some time.

Spoonie_Turtle

Robbie64 said:

I thought the assumptions that the health professionals sometimes make was where someone drove a car rather than just having a driving licence. Someone could have held a licence for years but not driven for quite some time.

No, merely holding a licence is apparently grounds for assuming one can have no difficulties.  I haven't been well enough to drive for years but my assessor latched onto the fact I still hold a licence to say I must be fine.  (They also justified other assumptions based on me having gone to mainstream school - 15yrs prior to the assessment, well before I became disabled.)