PIP face to face assessment - Need some advice.

SaitenMar

MalMonroe said:

SaitenMar said:

Thanks for the replies and advice. I might look into getting the report once I'm informed they've received it, to see if it's worth disputing the decision or not once I get that. Like I said I don't think it went very well and it's so hard to sometimes get your points across, especially when your very anxious about the assessment in the first place.

I'll have to look into disputing the decision and how I go about doing that, it's already been stressful enough. 
Thanks again. Appreciate the help.  

Hi, you don't know what the decision is yet so try not to worry too much. Although I know that is much easier said than done. 

I just wanted to say that one of my friends received some valuable and excellent help from an advisor at Citizens Advice last year when she had to appeal her PIP claim decision. I don't know if you've tried them but it seems that you're doing this on your own and that must be very daunting indeed. My friend's mental health was not helped by having to appeal but the advisor she had was very knowledgeable and helpful and she was awarded PIP after appeal. I think it's a great shame that people have to be put through the wringer but I guess they have to weed out the genuine cases from the not so genuine ones. 

Here's some info for Citizens Advice just in case (as you don't know the outcome yet) -

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/apply-to-tribunal/#:~:text=You can get help with,they're not always available.

Don't despair, all is not lost.  Good luck with everything 

Thanks for the reply MalMonroe, appreciate it. 

I did try to get in touch with Citizens Advice when I started my claim as I was told by my advisor that getting their help would be best but after attempting to ring them for five days straight for many hours I could never get through. Plus with Covid they were restrictive on face to face appointments so it never happened. But I might try again if I need to appeal the PIP claim. 

 

Spoonie_Turtle

MalMonroe said:

SaitenMar said:

Thanks for the replies and advice. I might look into getting the report once I'm informed they've received it, to see if it's worth disputing the decision or not once I get that. Like I said I don't think it went very well and it's so hard to sometimes get your points across, especially when your very anxious about the assessment in the first place.

I'll have to look into disputing the decision and how I go about doing that, it's already been stressful enough. 
Thanks again. Appreciate the help.  

Hi, you don't know what the decision is yet so try not to worry too much. Although I know that is much easier said than done. 

I just wanted to say that one of my friends received some valuable and excellent help from an advisor at Citizens Advice last year when she had to appeal her PIP claim decision. I don't know if you've tried them but it seems that you're doing this on your own and that must be very daunting indeed. My friend's mental health was not helped by having to appeal but the advisor she had was very knowledgeable and helpful and she was awarded PIP after appeal. I think it's a great shame that people have to be put through the wringer but I guess they have to weed out the genuine cases from the not so genuine ones. 

Here's some info for Citizens Advice just in case (as you don't know the outcome yet) -

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/apply-to-tribunal/#:~:text=You can get help with,they're not always available.

Don't despair, all is not lost.  Good luck with everything 

Not to derail the thread, but I disagree this particular wringer is justified.  There is some stress inherent in the process of getting assessed and having to focus on what we can't do and what difficulties we have, but all the rest of the worries and unpleasantness people routinely encounter with claiming are completely unnecessary.  The assessors and DWP could easily do their jobs right (and compassionately) the first time round, 'weeding out' the people who don't qualify whilst giving appropriate awards to all the claimants who do. 

Most MRs would be unnecessary if only everybody just did their darned jobs in the first place, and then only a tiny minority should ever need to reach tribunal for cases based on more obscure or in-depth points of law.  And people do not need to be made to feel bad in the assessments or that the assessor didn't understand - if they don't understand they should keep listening and asking questions sensitively until they do, and perhaps refer back to the paperwork for context to help clarify.  People should not have to worry about the decision because they know illegal denials are common (yes illegal, the criteria as well as how to determine which ones apply are set out in legislation, so wrong decisions are going against the law).

Sorry for the outburst, but for reading that phrase touched a nerve tonight.  The basic process as set out in guidance is sufficient to determine which claimants qualify and which don't.  It doesn't need to be as stressful or as complicated as it often ends up being.

Owain_Moneysaver

SaitenMar said:

found communicating with the assessor very difficult. I struggled to get a lot across to him and I didn't always understand him as he spoke very quietly (plus wearing the face mask didn't help).  

That is actually a good thing for you. It increases your grounds for mandatory reconsideration and appeal, if necessary, on the grounds that the assessor's report is unsatisfactory. 

SaitenMar

Hi all, I received a text message this morning informing me that my report as been received by DWP. Informs me that it could take up to eight weeks before I hear about a decision. 

Regarding what Spoonie_Turtle as said, I do agree that the assessment experience felt rather cold and rushed to me (at least from my experience). Looking back I did get the feeling he just wanted to get the assessment over and done with and get rid of me. Know that might sound stupid but I do think the process could do with a lot of improvements.

calcotti

SaitenMar said:.. I do think the process could do with a lot of improvements.

As do many!

SaitenMar

Hi folks, 

So I got a reply and it I've been turned down for both mobility and daily living. Mobility in particular is disappointing, having arthritis in my knees and ankles, I really struggle to get about and rely on family to help in everything so I'd have hoped to have at least got the basic to help with transport costs etc. The whole thing as felt like a waste of time and I've already decided I'm not going to have them reconsider given the tone of the letter and I just don't want to put myself through more months of worry and concern, have to deal with enough due to my arthritis. Reading about PIP I had hoped I would've qualified for help given my disabilities but that isn't the case so I'm going to find out if there's any other forms of help I can get regarding transport costs etc. 

Do want to thank you for all your help though. This whole experience as made me feel worthless but your help as been massively appreciated.
Thanks again. 

Alice_Holt

SaitenMar said:

Hi folks, 

So I got a reply and it I've been turned down for both mobility and daily living. Mobility in particular is disappointing, having arthritis in my knees and ankles, I really struggle to get about and rely on family to help in everything so I'd have hoped to have at least got the basic to help with transport costs etc. The whole thing as felt like a waste of time and I've already decided I'm not going to have them reconsider given the tone of the letter and I just don't want to put myself through more months of worry and concern, have to deal with enough due to my arthritis. Reading about PIP I had hoped I would've qualified for help given my disabilities but that isn't the case so I'm going to find out if there's any other forms of help I can get regarding transport costs etc. 

        Remember that over 70% of PIP appeals succeed at appeal, so poor are some of the PIP decision making processes.

       Also, that you have absolutely nothing to lose by appealing the decision.  You might as well see if a tribunal panel think the DWP decision is correct or not. 

      See if your local advice agency can help with an appeal.  I'd email them with a copy of your decision notice, and see if they have a caseworker who can advise on the merits of an appeal, and then help you with the actual appeal.

    First stage is a MR:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/challenge-a-decision-made-by-the-department-for-work-and-pensions-dwp
(But it's rare to get the decision changed at this point)

   Guide to PIP appeals:
  https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

  Check your PIP points:
     https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

What points did you score?

SaitenMar

Alice_Holt said:

SaitenMar said:

Hi folks, 

So I got a reply and it I've been turned down for both mobility and daily living. Mobility in particular is disappointing, having arthritis in my knees and ankles, I really struggle to get about and rely on family to help in everything so I'd have hoped to have at least got the basic to help with transport costs etc. The whole thing as felt like a waste of time and I've already decided I'm not going to have them reconsider given the tone of the letter and I just don't want to put myself through more months of worry and concern, have to deal with enough due to my arthritis. Reading about PIP I had hoped I would've qualified for help given my disabilities but that isn't the case so I'm going to find out if there's any other forms of help I can get regarding transport costs etc. 

        Remember that over 70% of PIP appeals succeed at appeal, so poor are some of the PIP decision making processes.

       Also, that you have absolutely nothing to lose by appealing the decision.  You might as well see if a tribunal panel think the DWP decision is correct or not. 

      See if your local advice agency can help with an appeal.  I'd email them with a copy of your decision notice, and see if they have a caseworker who can advise on the merits of an appeal, and then help you with the actual appeal.

    First stage is a MR:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/challenge-a-decision-made-by-the-department-for-work-and-pensions-dwp
(But it's rare to get the decision changed at this point)

   Guide to PIP appeals:
  https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

  Check your PIP points:
     https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

What points did you score?

Thanks Alice. 

What do you mean by local agency, do you mean something like Citizens' Advice? I tried to get help from them due to advice given to me by Job Centre advisors but spent days ringing them and never once got through. 

I'm not sure I have it in me for a tribunal panel, especially if it involved court. I found this experience stressful and painful enough just getting to this point so not sure if I have it in me physically and emotionally. A lot of it came down to how fast and disjointed I felt the assessment went I suspect, as I never felt I could really get my difficulties across as he was asking one question straight after another without me being given much time to go into detail, plus communication wasn't exactly easy as we both had issues understanding each other (and with masks on).

Regarding scores there's a lot that just doesn't make sense to me.

Preparing food - 2 points - Need an aid or appliance to be able to prepare or cook a simple meal.
I did make it clear that I physically struggle to make a meal for myself and rely on my parents cooking due to the limitations and pain.

Washing and bathing - 2 points: You need an aid or appliance to wash or bathe.
This is probably fair as I need an aid and the help of my family when bathing, especially my lower body.

Managing your toilet needs - 2 points - You need an aid or appliance to manage your toilet needs or incontinence.
I require the help of an aid or even family members when having a flare-up as I can't get easily up off the toilet so again, this sounds fair.

I got nothing else, despite the fact that I have to have help with dressing and undressing and made that clear in the assessment. Especially for my lower body and require help from my parents in relation to management of my medication.

For mobility: 

Planning and following a journey - 0 points. You can plan and follow a route of a journey unaided.
Can't really figure out how they came to this decision as I explained in detail that I need help from others in following a journey for my own safety, other than the fact I struggle to walk I have also fallen in the past and need someone with me so I don't get hurt.

Moving about - 4 points: You can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres either aided or unaided. 
Again, baffled how this decision was made as I can't travel that distance. I struggle to stand for more than a minute (even with walking aids) and certainly can't walk that distance. I do wonder if the miscommunication might have been a factor here.

I was also told to talk about my history of depression and suicidal ideation I have lived with since my early teens which was very stressful as it's something I don't like talking about with strangers, but I don't think that is factored into PIP at all, so having to go into great detail about that felt odd.

There's a lot I don't understand in regards to how PIP is awarded but like I said, not sure I have it in me to fight this decision as it's taken so much out of me already and there's isn't really any help out there other than you folks on here, I want to focus on managing my arthritis and all the crap that comes with that. Maybe try and find out if there's any other help out there.

Thanks again, sorry for the long post. 
 

poppy12345

A Tribunal isn't a court and nothing like it. Some hearings maybe held in a court building but that's as far as it goes. You're not on trial at a Tribunal. They are there to listen to you.

For further advice you can put your postcode into the this link and it will tell you what advice agency is local to you. Choose the topic "welfare benefits" https://advicelocal.uk/

For the aids with the descriprtors. if they think you can reasonably use an aid then you will score points for this. For preparing food, a perching stool is classed as a aid so if they think you can sit on this and prepare a simple meal then it's 2 points.

Following and planning a journey, if you're claiming for a phsyical condition then this may not apply to you. Regarding falls, consideration must be given to how the risk of falling manifests itself. Ordinarily the risk to a claimant’s safety arising from a physical inability to move safely would be applicable under activity 12. However, where the fall arises as a result of a sensory or cognitive impairment (for example, seizures associated with loss of consciousness) the risk of the fall to a claimant’s safety would be applicable under activity 11.

I agree with Alice here, you have nothing to lose by challenging the decision. The most likely outcome of the MR would be the decision will remain the same and there's much more chance of being successful at Tribunal.

Have a read of this, you may find it helpful to understand the descriptors a little more.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

Alice_Holt

Yes, Citizens Advice or a local Welfare Benefits Unit.  Unfortunately, there is huge demand on their services - so I can understand why you might struggle to get through, 
That's why I suggested you email them, include a photo of the decision letter. Explain that you experience depression (and anxiety ?), that you would struggle to appeal on your own. Explain that it takes you a long time to dress, and need physical help most days- but no points were awarded. Explain that the assessment didn't take account of your depression and (if the case) face to face engagement is difficult for you.  Ask if it is possible to be referred to a caseworker for help with an appeal. 

Do the first bit yourself, with the help of your parents - which is the MR (but expect it to be refused). 
On the MR explain the dressing bit, and if depression affects social engagement - explain this, plus the medication help. 
Explain that because of depression you need prompting to go out, and you can't walk for more than xxx metres reliably, without needing to stop due to your physical difficulties and pain.
Get a family member to write a short statement, explaining the difficulty you have with these activities, and the help you need from from, and why this help is needed.
If you have any relevant medical evidence handy, include a copy with the MR 
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool

With 6 DL points, you are only 2 short of a standard award.  The scoring is, as you say, inconsistent - having those 6 points it is entirely logical that dressing would need help, or take twice as long as anyone without your disability. It looks as if it could be a flawed assessment to me, that has failed to apply the PIP concept of reliability correctly, and has dismissed the impact of your depression.
I really would urge you to appeal this.

The appeal process takes a long time (due in part to the volume of appeals), but you will find the tribunal panel very different from your experience with the assessor.  Panels will want to hear how you cope in day-to-day life, they will encourage you to speak and are very mindful of people with anxiety / depression. It's not a court, there is no cross examination, they are not judging you. The panel's job is to decide if the PIP decision was right or wrong. The evidence you give them will be carefully considered by the panel. More than 70% of PIP appeals succeed.

Another thing to do at this stage is to write to your surgery requesting a paper copy of your medical records (as you need to appeal a PIP decision) . Under GDPR they  have to supply this without charge. Pick a suitable time period (possibly for the last 2 or 3 years?).  This will come in useful later in the appeal process.

Try to take it step by step, and try not to worry about the next stage.
1)  Email your local advice agency to see if they can help with an appeal (or put you on a waiting list for help later in the process) ;
2)  Get the MR in (keep a copy), get proof of posting,
3) Request your medical notes.

Another 'tip' - try not to take the decision or the assessment report personally.  Try to be dispassionate about the appeal process - focus on the facts (not DWP / assessors opinions), view it as a job / project to accomplish. This is why it helps to have outside help (parents / Cit A / etc).

Even if not successful (very, very unlikely I think), you will have lost nothing, and learnt a huge amount about PIP to help you when you next need to apply.