Joint tenants, ex-partners and both want the tenancy alone - help!

mic1000

My then-partner and I took a renewed 12 month tenancy in our joint names on a house, but soon after she cheated and went to live with him. She left lots of stuff, including her pets as she couldn't take them to his house (no pets allowed), but agreed to pay half the rent essentially so the animals could stay, and as a result refused to agree to ask to surrender the tenancy. Tenancy agreement has no break clause. I was happy living in the house on my own and want to take it over individually. But she (and new boyfriend) clearly decided they want the house too now and she has effectively now blackmailed me to leave the house, although I still have stuff stored there given I'm paying half the rent while living in someone's spare room. 
So essentially we both want the house, are joint tenants until July with no break clause. Obviously I'm not going to agree to another joint fixed term and nor will she, and I am sure she will assume now I'm out that I will just be grateful to end the agreement after July for her and boyfriend to then take over after enjoying these months of reduced rent for them. But I really like the house, and I'd like it back. So does it just come down to me giving notice for when it becomes periodic in July, but also telling the landlord I want to take it on alone, assuming my ex will do the same, and the landlord just deciding which of us he'd rather have as tenants (assuming either of us is preferable to anyone new)? From what I know my income is probably more than theirs combined and they're on fixed term contracts whereas my employment is a permanent contract so I hope from that point of view the landlord might prefer me. Is it likely to just come down to landlord's choice just as it would with 2 new tenants both wanting a vacant place, or does anything about the previous history have to be formally considered?
Thanks for any thoughts and advice!

deannagone

The LL could decide to rent the property to someone based on the colour of their hair.  There's little limit.  They could also decide to rent to someone else completely. 

Whatever reason you allowed your ex to move into the house, perhaps its time to get a storage unit, move your stuff out and come to an agreement with your ex that if they live there, they pay the rent - and come to an agreement with the LL if you can.  

Then you can move on literally and emotionally.

Slithery

That's not how it works.

As joint tenants you both need to come to an agreement otherwise the tenancy will continue indefinitely with the 2 of you jointly liable. If one of you serves notice then you both have to leave the property or the LL can charge you double-rent.

Read...

Ending/renewing an AST

mic1000

deannagone thanks, and yes just moving the rest out into storage had crossed my mind. But given the depths she's now sunk to I don't expect that would end up with her agreeing to pay all the rent and going to the LL to change the agreement. I'd just end up with the moving and storage costs, and she'd just enjoy me continuing to pay some rent but now without even my stuff in her way. So it's a possibility, but the agreement with the LL would have to come before I do any moving out, and she's resisted that so far.

Slithery thanks, and I wasn't aware of the double rent aspect. But I would hope the LL would be pragmatic if on a notice being served both tenants want to stay - just pick one and keep the continuity of rent rather than annoying both enforcing double rent and needing to find new tenants which could easily wipe out the double rent gain if it's empty in between. But it's a risk, and at least works in my favour if ultimately I'm more prepared to lose that place than she is because for her it could be a choice of agree to pay full rent for sole tenancy by going to the LL, or still have to pay full rent (double of half) except with LL chasing her out if she overstays, or have to leave anyway on time. 

But if it is possible I would like to return to the house as sole tenant, and perhaps the starting point is just to start a preliminary conversation with the LL? If he can see from the outset there's a clear and easy path to to an ongoing tenancy with a preferable tenant then perhaps we navigate the legalities in a coordinated way to get there for both our benefits. So perhaps that's even that he serves notice on both of us but with the follow on agreement with me done simultaneously...

Slithery

The starting point would be to come to an agreement with your ex....

canaldumidi

Obviously there are legal, personal, and relationship aspects to this. Frankly, this is a property site, so I shall focus on the legal. Re the relationship all I can say is you need tocome to a decision - it's over or it isn't. If it is, then agree it is move on.

mic1000 said:

My then-partner and I took a renewed 12 month tenancy in our joint names on a house,

So the tenancy currently in a fixed term?

 .... She left ..... but agreed to pay half the rent essentially so the animals could stay, and as a result refused to agree to ask to surrender the tenancy. OK

 Tenancy agreement has no break clause. OK. What are the exact dates please?

 I was happy living in the house on my own and want to take it over individually. You can only do this with the agreement of both her and your landlord

But she (and new boyfriend) clearly decided they want the house too now and she has effectively now blackmailed me to leave the house, ....No idea what you mean. What terrible secret do you have that she is threatening to reveal? (Ah! Sorry. Obv you're not going to reveal that here!)

 given I'm paying half the rent while living in someone's spare room.  OK, so now she is living there.

So essentially we both want the house, are joint tenants until July with no break clause. Ah! OK

Obviously I'm not going to agree to another joint fixed term and nor will she, and I am sure she will assume now I'm out that I will just be grateful to end the agreement after July for her and boyfriend to then take over after enjoying these months of reduced rent for them. Perhaps. But I ask myself - if you are not living there why are you paying half the rent? If rent arrears build up, yes you're still liable but the LL is more likely to chase the occupant. Or to evict which seems like the best solution frankly!

 But I really like the house, and I'd like it back. You moved out for some unknown reason and thereby lost bargaiing power. Ever heard the phrase "Possession is 9/10ths of the law". Forget the house. Forget the relationship. Move on.

So does it just come down to me giving notice for when it becomes periodic in July, that is one option.Notice ny you would end the tenancy. If she remained she'd not be a tenant and could be easily evicted. She (and you) could be charged double rent,or more accurately 'mesne profits'.

 but also telling the landlord I want to take it on alone, That is an option. Would the LL grant you a sole tenancy?

assuming my ex will do the same, and the landlord just deciding which of us he'd rather have as tenants (assuming either of us is preferable to anyone new)? Up to the LL, though frankly easier for him to grant it to the occupant than have to evict her and grant it to you ("Possession is 9/10ths of the law".)

From what I know my income is probably more than theirs combined and they're on fixed term contracts whereas my employment is a permanent contract so I hope from that point of view the landlord might prefer me. That would dubtless be a factor in his decsion

 Is it likely to just come down to landlord's choice just as it would with 2 new tenants both wanting a vacant place, Yes, tough see comments above.

or does anything about the previous history have to be formally considered? No

Now that you have left, my advice is

* forget the relationship/forget the property (is there a competitive aspect here? You feel hard-done by/cheated on, so want to use the property to get back at her....... just wondering.....)

* extract yourself legally/financially from her and the property by either

1) amicably (ha ha!) agreeing with her to request an Early Surrender of the tenancy and let her apply with new partner for new tenancy. You are then free of the tenancy. Or

2)  stop paying rent. She and partner might make up your missing payments to avoid arrears, but at least you are not paying for a place you don't live in. Come july you serve notice and walk away legally as well. Or

* they might not make the extra payments, and arrears will build up. Then landlord will probably

a) serve her/you a S8 Notice and evict. Tenancy ends. You are free. And

b) claim the arrears from you/her jointly. You might have to pay some/all the arreas but at least you get closure, tenancy ends. No more liability. But likely the court will order you both to pay the arrears as you are 'jointly and severally' liable for the full rent.

3) agree with her to request Early Surrender and apply for a sole tenancy yourself. Then up to the LL.

But if it is possible I would like to return to the house as sole tenant, and perhaps the starting point is just to start a preliminary conversation with the LL? If he can see from the outset there's a clear and easy path to to an ongoing tenancy with a preferable tenant then perhaps we navigate the legalities in a coordinated way to get there for both our benefits. So perhaps that's even that he serves notice on both of us but with the follow on agreement with me done simultaneously...

By all means have a conversation with the LL, but as long as the rent is currently being paid he's unlikely to agree anything till July. And if in July she's still there, moves to a Periodic Tenancy, and rent is up to date, what advantage to him in a protracted eviction to get her out and you in?

Now, after she left, had you stayed, you'd be in a stronger position: "Possession is 9/10ths of the law".

These links may also help:

Distress For Rent Act 1737 S18 & Landlord and Tenant Act 1730 S1(Double rent if tenant stays after giving notice) plus explanation here

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Sistergold

I would do things in this order if I were in your shoes
1. Go and get all my staff while we are “still talking”.
2. Stop paying rent and save it on the side, when there is a breakup if you don’t apply heat then you become a walkover 
3. Work on getting my name taken off
4. …

HampshireH

Go get your stuff and move out and stop paying 

Or

Nice back in and make life very uncomfortable for them until they leave 

I can't see how they have blackmailed you to leave and leave all your stuff behind. Very odd. Unless they have something to use for leverage.

Don't pay whilst your not there and your stuff is out.

Let the LL know your moved out , whose moved in.

But at the end of the day you are all adults and you all entered a contract.

Grumpy_chap

This all seems like a rather general mess and everyone is in a difficult and unwelcome place however this progresses.

The OP may be better to take the pain now, exit the current tenancy in the best way they can (that is formally processed and avoids any chance of the OP being liable for future costs) and get their new life and future set up in someplace else to live.  Staying (or returning) to the former home will be full of the memories (good and bad) of times spent with the ex, so tying the OP to their past.  A clean break may be the most positive.

As for the LL - there is every possibility that they would not let to either the OP or the EX individually if incomes don't support that.  Is it a property in demand?

BikingBud

Do you still have keys and access or have the locks been changed?

How much stuff do you have and how difficult is it to remove, plan and execute the removal of your kit.

Gain access and use the facilities in line with your contract, perhaps go for a pizza and a bottle of wine on a Sat night and discuss your position/possesion.

theoretica

Letting the LL know you are squabbling over the house would seem to me to make either of you very much less desirable as tenants - relationship counsellor or arbitrator is not what they signed up for!  Either you agree between yourselves and ask nicely if the LL would agree to a proposed change of tenants, or mess up each others credit ratings and references and I expect neither of you to end up in the house.