Car Seized as PNC shows licence expired Age 70 - Renewal still in progress

DB1904

Bullies_Beware2 said:

Sometimes I don't know why I bother - I am fully aware of the renewal process and initiated it myself in June 2020 when DVLA failed to do so. Swansea was closed due to Covid at that time.

All and every delay since is entirely due to Swansea failing to act, despite supplying various full medical clearances, so some of the inane and uninformed commentators implying that I am responsible for this situation need to put themselves in the position of not being able to move forward despite their best personal efforts, moving heaven and earth to be legally compliant and yet still being in this position, instead of assuming that officialdom is perfect and human beings less so. Human beings can read, interpret and apply discretion - computers can't - but human beings these days are not trained to see and observe when a computer is producing nonsense and override it. 

Thank you to those pointing out the guidance - I wrote to DVLA in June 2020 asserting my S88 rights after my renewal pack had failed to arrive, Swansea was shut and there was only eight weeks to my licence expiry so I needed to protect myself. That event is now eighteen months in the past - but still no licence - the most recent correspondence was late last month. It appears that the police don't recognise the existence of S88 or are more interested in exercising their power unlawfully and unwisely instead of fully and properly informing themselves before they do so.That is a sorry state of affairs

I have the whole paper trail to hand and will indeed be submitting it to the relevant force later today.

I generally support law enforcement but I do not support misinterpretation and unjustified actions. I thought the purpose of this forum was to expose such situations and assist people not to get into them, and how to get out when they do!

It appears you've misunderstood Section 88.

Section 88 cover is valid until any of the following apply:

• You receive your new driving licence, (as that will cover you to drive).

• Your application is refused or licence revoked by DVLA. You will receive a letter from DVLA if this is the case.

• Your application is more than a year old.

• You have been disqualified from driving since your application was sent to the DVLA.

Mojisola

[Deleted User] said:

All the online DVLA services are working as normal and without delay, I think you use a paper correspondence has probably worsened the situation.

For paper applications, as of the 7th Feb they were processing applications for over 70's renewals from the 18th November 2021, any prior to that will have been completed.

I had to send a paper form as I only had the old licence without a photo.  I sent it just after Christmas and it came back mid-January.

jimjames

Bullies_Beware2 said:

Sometimes I don't know why I bother - I am fully aware of the renewal process and initiated it myself in June 2020 when DVLA failed to do so. Swansea was closed due to Covid at that time.

I'm not sure if you've missed the contradiction here. You've said you started the process in June 2020 yet you've also said you're aware the S88 expires for various reasons including after 1 year. You then say none of which apply. For what reason do you think the 1 year expiry does not apply to your application? Knowing what reason you're claiming exemption would help determine the options.

Bullies_Beware2

I first wrote to DVLA to protect myself quoting S88 in June 2020 because I had recevied no renewal forms from DVLA who were not answering the phone or replying to postal mail at tha time. There were complications about my groups so it was not possible to renew on line. I have no convictions, no points, no disqualiications - merely a question in 2020 as to what groups and medical examinations I needed.

In August 2020 I recevied renewal forms for several groups but with an 11 month moratorum being put in place that month, time was not of the essence and DVLA were not pressing for early submission.

I got my eyesight tested last spring - made further enquiries and confirmed that in the final event that all I needed was the groups covered on my private licence, went to see the doctor and cleared all the issues, but when I tried to renew online I was locked out with no reason given - medical??? I finally managed to send  a paper renewal application to DVLA in July 2021 when they wrote to me and requested me to proceed.

July 2021 is the trigger date starting the 12 month S88 limitation so July 2022 is the expiry date. I am in date.

I have no medical or optical advice to cease driving so no prohibition there

I have no legal prohibition, points or disqualiication.awarded by any court - ever.

I have a complete paper trail - S88 protection letter - 6/20,  DVLA Application 7/21, confirmed receipt and ongoing correspondence through to last month - and all forms received from DVLA confirm that provided I give the information requested by the deadline date in each letter, that S88 rights will remain in place and that an inability to drive will not be imposed whilst the contact with DVLA, as requested is maintained - It has been.

I cannot see how in any way I have contravened the requirements of S88 or DVLA correpondence, so as far as I am concerned it is for the police to prove the issue. 

The question here is has anyone else come across anything like it?

Finally - God alone knows why DVLA can't simply re-issue my licence. OK - I'm a type 2 diabetic - but I don't have hypo's, fall asleep at the wheel or have any of the other problems that some suffer - but this Saga is going on and on with no resolution and that really is the heart of the problem. 
. 

DB1904

Bullies_Beware2 said:

I first wrote to DVLA to protect myself quoting S88 in June 2020 because I had recevied no renewal forms from DVLA who were not answering the phone or replying to postal mail at tha time. There were complications about my groups so it was not possible to renew on line. I have no convictions, no points, no disqualiications - merely a question in 2020 as to what groups and medical examinations I needed.

In August 2020 I recevied renewal forms for several groups but with an 11 month moratorum being put in place that month, time was not of the essence and DVLA were not pressing for early submission.

I got my eyesight tested last spring - made further enquiries and confirmed that in the final event that all I needed was the groups covered on my private licence, went to see the doctor and cleared all the issues, but when I tried to renew online I was locked out with no reason given - medical??? I finally managed to send  a paper renewal application to DVLA in July 2021 when they wrote to me and requested me to proceed.

July 2021 is the trigger date starting the 12 month S88 limitation so July 2022 is the expiry date. I am in date.

I have no medical or optical advice to cease driving so no prohibition there

I have no legal prohibition, points or disqualiication.awarded by any court - ever.

I have a complete paper trail - S88 protection letter - 6/20,  DVLA Application 7/21, confirmed receipt and ongoing correspondence through to last month - and all forms received from DVLA confirm that provided I give the information requested by the deadline date in each letter, that S88 rights will remain in place and that an inability to drive will not be imposed whilst the contact with DVLA, as requested is maintained - It has been.

I cannot see how in any way I have contravened the requirements of S88 or DVLA correpondence, so as far as I am concerned it is for the police to prove the issue. 

The question here is has anyone else come across anything like it?

Finally - God alone knows why DVLA can't simply re-issue my licence. OK - I'm a type 2 diabetic - but I don't have hypo's, fall asleep at the wheel or have any of the other problems that some suffer - but this Saga is going on and on with no resolution and that really is the heart of the problem. 
. 

When did your licence expire?

molerat

Now OP has posted the actual timeline I believe the police have acted wrongly. Original licence expiry 08/20, extended to 07/21.  There was no need to apply until requested which OP did in 07/21, within their licence extension. What date does the PNC show licence expired ? I think OP needs to get all their paperwork together and contact their police force a to raise a formal complaint requesting that any charges are dropped and the vehicle returned at no expense.

jimjames

Bullies_Beware2 said:

I first wrote to DVLA to protect myself quoting S88 in June 2020 because I had recevied no renewal forms from DVLA 
July 2021 is the trigger date starting the 12 month S88 limitation so July 2022 is the expiry date. I am in date.
. 

Thanks for the details, that looks pretty clear to me. Hopefully someone else will be able to advise.

Bullies_Beware2

PNC as I sat in the motorway patrol car last night says 08/20 which is factually correct from my card licence, but legally wrong as the global extension was effective to 07/21 

I do not know if PNC was hooked up to DVLA or just reporting the details of my now expired card licence as recorded on PNC - but either way there is a mismatch between databases which leaves the public vulnerable. I appear to have found that vulnerability as I too often seem to - Why me???

TBagpuss

If you don't get any joy from the police when you speak to them today it may be worth contacting a newspaper - I know that the 'Consumer Champions' in the Guardian's money section have dealt with letters from people having issues with DVLA and might be interested / able to help given that it's resulted in this case in your car being seized. 

Admiral_Barbarossa

Bullies_Beware2 said:

Finally - God alone knows why DVLA can't simply re-issue my licence. OK - I'm a type 2 diabetic - but I don't have hypo's, fall asleep at the wheel or have any of the other problems that some suffer - but this Saga is going on and on with no resolution and that really is the heart of the problem. 
. 

I am also Type 2 diabetic, with coronary heart disease and an ICD fitted. I went through the DVLA medical department smoothly around 10 years ago and have kept them informed that I am still fit to drive. I recently updated my licence, last December with notes from my Doctor online, cornea diabetes check and blood sugar tests. and was renewed within 7 days. I have not had a problem doing this and updating the DVLA when required to do so!

I would say that although there was a moratorium on licence renewals until July 2021, your licence would had expired at this date, which being the actual date the licence did expire, such as June 2020,  when you became 70. In this respect, the police are probably correct to remove your car from the road.

As such, you pre-existing medical condition are the reason that your license has not been renewed. 

Having type 2 diabetes does not stop a person driving, as long as they continue to keep their condition under control and have their routine screening, such as cornea photography carried out at regular intervals, mine was last done in October 2021 and blood testing!

As a point, I have managed to keep my type 2 Diabetes under control through diet and management!