Car Seized as PNC shows licence expired Age 70 - Renewal still in progress

Bullies_Beware2

I was stopped by the police tonight and PNC shows my licence as expired on my 70th birthday which occurred during the Covid moratorium.

The renewal process was started in date and I have correspondence with DVLA as recently as January to show this is still proceeding - I also, now, have no car as it was towed away to a pound some twenty miles away and nowhere near my closest police station or within my local council area!

The police would not accept my assertion that I had protected my right to continue to drive while the renewal is ongoing by reference to S88 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 as mentioned on DVLA forms, guidance notes and medical forms, and which only fails to be effective if my doctor, or optician declares me unfit to drive or if my application is over a year old - of which none apply.

Has anyone had a similar experience or can give advice as to how I get my vehicle back with no fees incurred and no further legal action? as anything I can envisage seems doomed to fail. 

GrumpyDil

I'd start in the morning by either ringing or visiting a local station (if there is any such thing where you are) and asking to speak to a senior officer not the desk staff and explain how you have a right to drive the vehicle and that it should not have been seized.

For some reason I don't seem able to paste links at the moment but I'd show then the section and leaflet on the gov site which gives you that right

roddydogs

The licence expiry details is sent well before  you reach 70, why did you not take action then? Its a 5 mins online job. How does that give them the right to seize the car?

peter_the_piper

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

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sevenhills

Bullies_Beware2 said:

The renewal process was started in date and I have correspondence with DVLA as recently as January to show this is still proceeding - I also, now, have no car as it was towed away to a pound some twenty miles away and nowhere near my closest police station or within my local council area!

I renewed my licence during lockdown because there were stories about it taking a long time. It came back within 3 weeks. It is unfortunate that you did not renew yours in time.

Is someone other than you responsible for that? That is not for the police to judge.

Good luck with sorting your problem out, it may cost you a few hundred pounds.

Bullies_Beware2

Sometimes I don't know why I bother - I am fully aware of the renewal process and initiated it myself in June 2020 when DVLA failed to do so. Swansea was closed due to Covid at that time.

All and every delay since is entirely due to Swansea failing to act, despite supplying various full medical clearances, so some of the inane and uninformed commentators implying that I am responsible for this situation need to put themselves in the position of not being able to move forward despite their best personal efforts, moving heaven and earth to be legally compliant and yet still being in this position, instead of assuming that officialdom is perfect and human beings less so. Human beings can read, interpret and apply discretion - computers can't - but human beings these days are not trained to see and observe when a computer is producing nonsense and override it. 

Thank you to those pointing out the guidance - I wrote to DVLA in June 2020 asserting my S88 rights after my renewal pack had failed to arrive, Swansea was shut and there was only eight weeks to my licence expiry so I needed to protect myself. That event is now eighteen months in the past - but still no licence - the most recent correspondence was late last month. It appears that the police don't recognise the existence of S88 or are more interested in exercising their power unlawfully and unwisely instead of fully and properly informing themselves before they do so.That is a sorry state of affairs

I have the whole paper trail to hand and will indeed be submitting it to the relevant force later today.

I generally support law enforcement but I do not support misinterpretation and unjustified actions. I thought the purpose of this forum was to expose such situations and assist people not to get into them, and how to get out when they do!

molerat

I have a sneaky suspicion that the police are correct and you were driving unlicenced.  It will no doubt take a lawyer to interpret the actual s88 rather than the wording of the leaflet from DVLA but my suspicion is that, in the case of a renewal, the one year countdown starts from the application date or expiry of the original licence whichever is earlier. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/88

Grumpy_chap

Bullies_Beware2 said:

I am fully aware of the renewal process and initiated it myself in June 2020 when DVLA failed to do so. Swansea was closed due to Covid at that time.

I wrote to DVLA in June 2020 asserting my S88 rights after my renewal pack had failed to arrive, Swansea was shut and there was only eight weeks to my licence expiry so I needed to protect myself. That event is now eighteen months in the past - but still no licence 

I don't know the rules here, but it seems odd that the licence application has taken so long.  I accept COVID. 

But, my wife had to renew her licence (medically restricted) and the turn around was fairly quick - quick enough that she was never really thinking about the time taken, so I imagine no slower than normal pre-COVID times.  That renewal was post-COVID re-opening.

Is it possible that the DVLA are dealing with new stuff at normal pace (so achieving KPIs) but the stuff that landed during COVID is just sitting in a pile to be processed whenever someone gets around to it, on that basis that all KPIs have been failed on these so they can now take as long as forever?

I don't know whether that would be the case.
It would be poor practice if that were the case.
If that is the case, would one "work-around" be for the OP to re-apply for renewal now, ignoring the previous renewal application?  Not sure if that would be tacit admission by the OP of driving without a licence.  

Just an idea for consideration - maybe the OP or others know the exact rules in that regard.

molerat

Grumpy_chap said:

I don't know the rules here, but it seems odd that the licence application has taken so long.  I accept COVID. 

But, my wife had to renew her licence (medically restricted) and the turn around was fairly quick - quick enough that she was never really thinking about the time taken, so I imagine no slower than normal pre-COVID times.  That renewal was post-COVID re-opening.

Is it possible that the DVLA are dealing with new stuff at normal pace (so achieving KPIs) but the stuff that landed during COVID is just sitting in a pile to be processed whenever someone gets around to it, on that basis that all KPIs have been failed on these so they can now take as long as forever?

I don't know whether that would be the case.
It would be poor practice if that were the case.
If that is the case, would one "work-around" be for the OP to re-apply for renewal now, ignoring the previous renewal application?  Not sure if that would be tacit admission by the OP of driving without a licence.  

Just an idea for consideration - maybe the OP or others know the exact rules in that regard.

As with Royal Mail and the NHS, once it is late it is late and there are no further repercussions no matter how more late it is so the priority will be on new receipts as they will be measured.  One of the reasons why many KPIs are of no real use whatsoever as they don't actually reflect the efficiency of an organisation, just their efficiency at a small set point in time.

lordmountararat

I renewed my licence in January and it took less than ten working days, but you really have to do it online to get a quick result.

[Deleted User]

All the online DVLA services are working as normal and without delay, I think you use a paper correspondence has probably worsened the situation.

For paper applications, as of the 7th Feb they were processing applications for over 70's renewals from the 18th November 2021, any prior to that will have been completed.

Your 11 month extension from Aug 2020 expired on July 2021, in which case a paper application should have been processed by now according to DVLA website if it was applied for in advance of that.

What date did you first apply for the renewal?